What we talk about in this episode:
0:00 Intro with Michael Cirillo, Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier.
6:09 Jeff sort of fell into digital marketing. He started doing it because it was part of running his business, but not because he was looking to do digital marketing. It wasn’t until after he sold his skate shop that he realized his marketing skills.
11:41 Smail Auto Group focuses on video series that highlight customer use of the vehicle. And that’s been successful, seeing 400k-500k views a month.
15:33 Jeff and his team have been so successful on Youtube that they’ve qualified for monetization. They are able to take that money and pour it back into their team.
25:23 There are a lot of other industries where you can get marketing and content ideas. Jeff loves going to conferences where he can think about things from a non-automotive perspective.
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Kyle Mountsier, Jeff Revilla, Paul Daly, Michael Cirillo
Kyle Mountsier 00:00
When I was a kid, I tried to skate. And I was terrible at it
this is Auto Collabs
Paul Daly 00:13
like roller skate and skating rink. We know a couple skate
Kyle Mountsier 00:15
like, no goodness. Are you serious? I was an all pro four wheel skater. But no, when we're talking about when we're talking about pants and all rolled up triple rolled to a 90s. Like it was my job to write socks. No. So our next guest, probably one of the first ways that I was introduced to him is that he owned a skate shop. We're talking like board skates in the late 90s. And earliest board. Yeah, a skateboard board a skateboard. Hey, this is how much I know about skateboarding. With wheels. I tried it one time fell on my rear and I was done. But that's like the first way I get introduced to Jeff Revilla. The second way is he shared a video with a group of my friends. That was him in his skate shop, creating content. And at the end of the video, he takes all of the skate stuff in front of him and throws it at his producer. Because of that one thing, this video goes on to get hundreds of 1000s of really, and thus starts the story of Jeff Revilla, the consummate content creator. Oh my goodness, like how long ago was that? It was probably like late 2000s, early, early 2010. Somewhere in there. You've known about no Oh, I haven't known him. I just got shared that video. That was two years ago. Yeah. So you're saying he's been doing this for a while he's been doing it a hot minute, man. He's one of the people that I can't see coming to ASOTU CON. He absolutely I cannot wait to meet him. Yeah, he's coming to ASOTU CON, he's going to be a part of he's a part of the Auto Genius community. So he's going to be in that dealers pitching vendors Pitch Tank arena. And it's really interesting, because you look across marketers in our, in our industry, and you see these super analytical, highly dedicated process people, especially in a director role, but so many of them come from this creative ecosystem. And and that's what really makes them great, because they're not just great creators, but that allows them to be creative in the way that they create processes or engage their community. And he's someone that's done that really, really well. Good night.
Paul Daly 02:27
Michael, have you ever skateboarded
Michael Cirillo 02:29
I was not allowed. So I would borrow my friend's skateboards. And now that I think about it, why wasn't I allowed? We didn't have to, like pay for hospital visits. This isn't a done but yeah. Now I'm enraged. But I used to go call my dad into the backyard and just practice doing kick flips on the grass. It still got me skating by like, not visible but I'm sure my mom was just like peering through the blinds being like my son shake their head. Yeah, no, but you know what I was gonna say I and I hope I really hope we get to kind of dig into this with Jeff. content creating for that long Me thinks there must be something to it. And here we are in 2022 Still trying to convince the pupil about the power of, of content creation. So I hope that everybody enjoys this conversation with Jeff Revilla.
Kyle Mountsier 03:31
All right, Jeff Revilla the man the myth, the legend, probably honestly, I think Jeff, you may hold the like place in my heart and actually own the trophy for the greatest gif slash meme creator in automotive. Are you okay with that statement?
Jeff Revilla 03:49
I mean, I'll accept it, accept it. I did notice all and for the conference, everybody else got an automotive credit, their like director of this and invented this. And then I all my only credit for the conference was smoothest voice in podcasting, which was like, nothing I do ever gets an automotive credit. But yeah, I do. I do stuff.
Kyle Mountsier 04:10
That's great. No, yeah. So Jeff Revilla is, is your technical Title Director of Marketing at Smail. Is that right? Or I
Jeff Revilla 04:20
like to say digital marketing.
Kyle Mountsier 04:23
Okay, cool. It's fancy like that. Well, Jeff, tell me a little bit because your history is not in automotive, you've kind of like you've touched a lot of marketing Ischgl ecosystems. So give us a little bit of history about like, where you were pre automotive, and then how that's led you into the automotive space for probably a lot of our listening audience that doesn't know.
Jeff Revilla 04:46
Yeah, the thing I have in common for the last 20 years is I've only worked in industries that have four wheels before automotive. I had a skateboard shop. I did skateboard manufacturing at a skateboard park. I did that for about eight years and I bought this old Building from a guy, and I didn't know anything. I was like 25. And my dad's like, he'll tell this guy, you'll give him $3,000 For a building. And I'm like, as you shorted he's like, my dad's like, Yeah, do it. And I'm like, okay, so I get, I get a meeting with this guy to open up my skate shop, I say, I'm gonna buy this building from him to give you $3,000 He throws me out of his restaurant, and we met at a restaurant that he calls me back and says, I can't do 3000 But I'll do it for 11. So I bought a built my first building I bought I bought for $11,000. It was like 8000 square feet. It's in a very rundown area. But wow, had good, good guts. They say good roof. Good guts. Yeah. And that was like 2001, I started a skateboard shop. I did mail order, retail all over the place early on ecommerce. And we kind of went from there, it kind of kept growing and growing wheels got bigger and bigger, I guess, and more expensive as my career went on.
Kyle Mountsier 05:55
So how did those four wheels of a skateboard turn you into an automotive marketer? Like, what was out of out of that transition happened?
Jeff Revilla 06:06
I mean, you know, me, tell me a little rough around the edges. I do have that skateboarding punk rock mentality where everything's kind of malleable. rules aren't really rules, we can make things work. But I didn't even know I was a marketer. Like, I was just running a skateboard shop. But you know, I'm buying AdWords. And you know, 2002 2003, Overture was a big paid search with Yahoo, they were doing all the research at that time. And, you know, I'm optimizing pages, I'm building catalogs. And I'm doing stuff. And after I closed my shop, people started asking me, like, how do you do a website? Or, you know, what is, you know, what's MySpace or Friendster? You know, things like that. And that kind of explained, like, you know, how you register a domain name. And I'm answering all these questions all over the place. And
Kyle Mountsier 06:50
like, I was trying to sell some skateboards over here, though.
Jeff Revilla 06:54
But I developed this set of skills that I didn't even know it was, it was more valuable than my college education. And I just kept building on it and building on it. And I do consulting, I get some side gigs. And I tell people, these crazy numbers, and they would pay it, I was like, Okay, I guess I'm doing all right.
Kyle Mountsier 07:09
I love it. I love it. So so maybe walk me through, like, where, because obviously coming from like buying AdWords and buying, buying ads on Overture, back in the early 2000s. To like, what you're doing now from a digital marketing perspective, there's, there's been a lot of transition that you've that you've seen and gone through, but I guess maybe what's the through line to things that that have stayed consistent to things that you have always needed to make sure like you like, if you do these things, or if I've done these things, they just they stay consistent. The the mediums or the resources or anything like that would change.
Like the one thing they do have in common is conversions don't really happen online and either industry with, with skateboarding, it's mostly 12 year old boys just clicking on ads and looking at pictures, and they're not buying stuff, right. But you got to get in front of them to get their parents to buy the stuff and and automotive. People click on stuff, they're looking at pictures, they don't really buy stuff online. Right. But they're in a process of 30 60 90 days to find that right vehicle. So I've never really been in an industry where you know, there's conversions, obviously, in E commerce, but automotive the last 10 years, you don't buy a car online, especially in Pennsylvania, you can't even do that. But, you know, you know, how do you serve that audience? How do you create stuff that gets in front of them? Right? That's kind of I'm sure it's what we'll get into some of the video stuff that we've been doing, and how do you maintain time on site? How do you get people but how do you increase your presence in the search engines? And, you know, there's a lot of things you could do, there's a lot of ways to do it. You know, one way that we've been doing has been pretty successful. Yeah, so
Kyle Mountsier 08:55
So talk about that, because I think when people hear marketer a lot, they think about, like, is that person doing a good job managing my paid search and my social ads and my, my website, but you've taken a much broader approach to that, especially being like a digital marketing director or manager, right? That, that it that the ecosystem is a lot wider and specifically with video and content. So tell us a little bit about like, how you see that broad ecosystem playing, playing really well together, and then maybe give give some insight on exactly what you've done with, like your YouTube and video and content strategy?
Yeah, it's not it's not just convergence, because we know you hear the story. 60% of people walk into the dealership never made contact with the dealer. Right? So you know, I can get some sort of data from 40%. But 60% You can't right? And that's still the majority. So how do you keep those people engaged? How do you make sure that you're top top of mind when it does come time to make that change that choice who they're going to buy from? And we about? I think I brought in a videographer maybe 2014 2015. And we did what every dealer out there does look at us, we're great. We got these great cars, we got these great deals. Us, us, us, us. It's all about us, right? And we kind of started with like, look at these cars that we have. And around that time, we're like, well, that's just you seen automotive dealer YouTube channels, right? They get three views, 20 views, some of the good dealers, do they get 50 views, right? We took we kind of pivoted, we're like we're Smail Auto Group. We're Smail the brand, we have 10 franchises. What if what if we took some sort of concept like, like a structured television concept of a series like? And we looked at three different ways to create video. One was what we thought was an unboxing video kind of you always see people unboxing, new cell phone, you hear them take off the cellophane and pull the box here that suction of the air. And we're like, Well, what if we did that for cars? And what if we did it with somebody who didn't wasn't really a car person? We call that first look, that's the first driver first look. And that's just, that's just somebody going through all the things that a normal person would push and pull and press and recline and open and close. Not even talking about horsepower mpg. We don't even care about that. We just what do you do everyday in a car? So we we shifted from what we were we as a dealer to what the people use a vehicle for? And then
Kyle Mountsier 11:31
so can we use people internally for that? Or are you like finding customers or friends or things like that, to do that?
Internally all internally, we don't, we have different series and that one isn't that one's done by people in the marketing department. So they're not salespeople, they're not trying to sell you a car, they're just trying to use the car in the way that you would and, and we have, we live in the mountains of Pennsylvania. So we have these great back roads. So we do another with a ride along where you sit in the backseat while you're the salespersons taking you on a drive through the hills of Greensburg. And when we change these two things, so now you see the car performing right, up and down and around the bends and you hear the acceleration you see the radius of a U turn we do backing in and using the camera. And when we change from this as us like we are awesome. Where you buy us, us us Greensburg car sales to this is how you use a vehicle. Alright, there's a first time in a lot, I saw a hockey stick growth like we went from, you know, 50 views a day, we get about 400,00 500,000 views a month on our videos now, month after month, and grids grow slightly, you know, here and there. But that change from Hey, this is who we are, let's
Kyle Mountsier 12:46
just say four to 500,000 views a month across the group. Yes, correct. Okay, so break that down. So you got four to 500,000 views. And obviously, this is like you started this back, what, seven, eight years ago, something like that now at this point where you've kind of created this. So four to 500,000 views a month, you've got how many videos would you say you're producing on a monthly basis now as this kind of like content feed grows
pretty consistently with you know, including like reels and tiktoks and vertical video, we're in the 25 30 videos a month. So I know we kind of one time there was over 300 or 3000 videos before we're probably at 3500 videos easily. Over those seven years. And we I have a tremendous photographer. And part of also what we haven't talked about was I am process driven and I write we have structured like as loose as I am and you know how loose I am. And and the nonsense that I bring to Auto Genius. But that nonsense also creates structure that empowers and enables my teams have just produce. I'm not I'm not a guy that hovers. I don't say this needs done this. He's done. They know what needs done. They have a great time doing it and we publish. Yeah. And when we saw that growth to now let's be honest to four to 500,000 views isn't western Pennsylvania, that's not Greensburg, people Sure. Looking at our videos, it may be 10% Are Pennsylvania and maybe 5% of that are even western Pennsylvania. So you know we're talking you know, 30 to 40,000 are probably local to us out of that out of that whole batch. But what we realized is we didn't care. Because when you look at our video SEO, when you look at referrals for we don't just get YouTube referrals which we can talk about. You're either dead or you're not if you're not getting recommended, right, you start to see that we get five 10% of those views from search engine or from other from other places as on our blog, right. There'll be goes to auto dealer blogs on purpose.
Kyle Mountsier 14:51
They just trip into them every once in a while.
That's what my joke is nobody wakes up in the morning and says I wonder what my local car dealer did on their blog. Overnight, nobody can. But when, when someone looks at, you know, who is the most relevant Honda dealer in my area, who's the most relevant, Acura dealer? Well, this content that's getting seen globally, gives you that hyper focus locally, where it you'll see, you might search for a model, you might see a couple ads, you might see your organic listing, which is even better. But then you'll see that video pack, and we show up in that video pack so often, for so many searches that it's, that's where the investment is. And we're, and you can, because we've been on for so long, all of our stores have qualified for the ads program. So now we started thinking well, and Google made some changes early in the year, whether or not you're in the ads program or not, they're gonna run ads, you can't out, you can't opt out anymore, right? So we're like, Well, if we can't opt out, and they're gonna make money on us, and 90% of our views are all around the world. Well, let's, let's, let's take a little that scratch, right? I want a little taste, give me a little taste of that Google. So we've opted in, and now we monetize. Or we kind of do this donut strategy, right? We care about our backyard. But we also don't care about outside of our backyard. So if somebody watches our video in California, or Nevada, they get they get use out of it. Great. You know what, I get ad revenue out of it. So now I'm taking these views from globally and funneling that into, you know, a nice little chunk of change every month, we get deposited into our account that I can use for new equipment, I can use that.
Kyle Mountsier 16:35
So you're using that for like, putting it back into the marketing team? Right? Yeah,
we're good. We're going to conferences, we're upgrading our equipment. We're comping, you know, salespeople with gift cards, so wherever they want, we're spending that and, and really just building the program bigger and bigger now, it's now you see that scale? Not Mr. Beast level scale, but we're doing all right.
Kyle Mountsier 16:57
No, that's, that's really cool. You know, you said something as you were going there that, I think, is is a really interesting kind of concept that I think as marketers, you know, it's, it's all been about SEO and everybody it's like, you gotta show up for near me searches, right? Everybody's searching near me and whether or not it's actually like a near me search. It's a location based search. But, and it's all about just accessibility or availability. But you said something that really caught my my ear. And I think this is something that marketers and content creators and even dealers, maybe can be thinking about. And maybe you can add some context, because I'm sure you thought about it. But you said relevant near me, that there's that there's a there's actually an importance to having some level of relevance. And there's like social proof and video proof. And, and all of the things that say like, know, this person has relevance and authority, not just accessibility. Yeah, I'm guessing you've thought about that a little bit.
Jeff Revilla 17:56
I have some theories. Yeah. I mean, locally, by far, your number one best bet is is your Google business profile, hands down 100% optimize that that'll crush locally, phenomena. But when he gets when you start to get outside of those searches, or you know, that's it starts as you get away from make geo a little bit, that you know, that relevance of Google Business Profile fades a little. But when I'm a Honda dealer, and somebody's searching locally, you know, my idea is that I'm probably the most relevant Honda dealer in western Pennsylvania, no one's producing content at the scale that we are getting. We just had the thing it was 2023 HRV, video 100,000 views in the last six weeks, like, like, no one's going to out beat me on 100,000, organic HRV views in western Pennsylvania. So when people start searching for, you know, I need an HRV in western Pennsylvania. I'm gonna be there in that video pack. I'm I am the most relevant Honda dealer in western Pennsylvania. I've got to win that search. Right.
Kyle Mountsier 18:57
Wow. Yeah. Well, and not just that, but like when you think about search engines today, there are three top search engines. Top is Google. Second is not being its YouTube. Third is also not being it's Tik Tok, right. So like, when you talk about this content, you're you're literally feeding all of the search engines that someone could possibly be trying to find relevancy in a local area. It's huge. And, you know, I like to be able to put money back into almost like an r&d fund for your team is, is literally like saying these people matter whether it be the salespeople or the marketing people, that these people matter. And our content can actually provide me resources as a marketing director to enable them to do even more within their time or their resources, right? Yeah,
I mean, it's the whole it's the Red Bull model, right? Yeah. How many of us before the we really watched live stream we watch it was a Felix Bomgartner jumped from space. Right? It was a Saturday afternoon. We're all at home. Everybody's blowing up watching Felix. And it was like, the value that Red Bull got from that it was like 2010 I think, from the world watching Felix jump from space, that value of that ad revenue or not revenue at that time, but the the earned media of Red Bull for just doing that, that that was kind of the concept we had in 2014. Like, let's just do a Red Bull does, let's be an in house media company. And people will have to focus on us. Like, there's no other way around it.
Kyle Mountsier 20:36
So okay, so I you said Are there three channels or three things that you're because you've got the the unboxing for cars, the ride along? Is there anything else that you've kind of explored at this point that that is content that you're regularly dripping other than like, you know, the newest freshest thing?
Yeah, these play a little better on Facebook than they do on YouTube. But we do a series called cars in the community kind of rural Mr. Rogers-ey, you know, Hey, everybody, we're gonna go over to the food bank, today, I got this Ford EcoSport, we've loaded up some cans, let's go see what they need over at the food bank. And that's the only mention of the car. Right then and there, just upfront real subtle, we show a picture of the car pulling in. And then we go and we interview the food bank, we talked about what they need, and everything else. We like, we'll go to the animal shelter, same type of thing, or the local parks having a festival free fair for everybody. We'll go there and talk to the not the director, but whoever's producing that event will go talk to them, go to the theater, talk to the theater, and just you know, just us in the community, showcasing the community, not us. But we got to get there somehow. So we do the little Mr. Rogers. Like
Kyle Mountsier 21:45
we got to drive there. And we got some cars. And so we put a guy in a car, and then he went there and we shot
Jeff Revilla 21:52
to put a guy in a car, you know what I mean? We put that in.
Kyle Mountsier 21:58
And we just so happened to have some cameras on hand.
Jeff Revilla 22:03
All the time.
Kyle Mountsier 22:05
Yeah, it's perfect. It's unbelievable. So you know what I what I also appreciate you appreciate you in the in the time that I've gotten to know you, in this auto genius community that's out there is that you really have a perspective that looks outside, you know, outside of Moto. So you've got your history in, in skateboards, and you're also looking at, like, you know, who Mr. Beast is who a lot of people, you know, unless they've got kids, they may not know, right? And then, you know, even even like you've told me you think about what what places can I take my team that are non auto conferences or events or, or learning or what podcasts Can I listen to that are that are outside of the automotive silo that might be able to find some relevance to bring within auto? Where have you found the places that have enabled your marketing team or you to really be more impactful within auto from a learning perspective?
Yeah, well, my hands down favorite conferences, Content Marketing World, in Cleveland, I'm literally going to ASOTU CON. And I'm driving from Philly back to Cleveland, just to go like a whole a seven day span of conferences. Wow. And that it is just it is a phenomenal community. You're gonna meet people from every industry, you're gonna get perspective on the types of content they create, even even in travel, you will get ideas on how to make a great automotive video from the travel industry, you'll see corporate like GM or GE, and you'll see agencies from around the world, they they kind of diverge on Cleveland, you know, for two, three days. And you just you just see what's possible. It doesn't all relate to automotive, right? But you see it, you see content in a whole new way. And you will make connections there that you'll take with you. You'll you'll you'll be calling them on the next weekend. Hey, I got this idea. Have you ever done anything like this or it's just a great place to meet people a great place for content? For video. Right now it's I know you they have a virtual ticket if you want to go, but it's VidCon its own it's Derral Eve's Mr. Beast, they actually they put on this car, it's 199 for the replays. So not trying to plug other conferences.
Kyle Mountsier 24:21
No, it's perfect. Because here's the thing, this is what I noticed. And I don't know if you've ever hired someone and this happens, right? But I noticed this happens. We get a great graphic designer or a videographer or something like that. And they're coming from outside of automotive and you get them. Yes, found a great videographer, content creator, something like that. We're bringing them in auto and all of a sudden, like they start and like day three, they make an auto ad and everyone knows what that is. And you're like, Whoa, you show me your portfolio over here. You stepped in our building and for some reason you thought like slanted text with a 399 and a jelly bean thing well It's okay. Right or like they shoot it like, the auto commercial that they saw when they were when they were like 13 in their mom's, you know, in their mom's living room. And, like, we have to get that somehow out of people that there's like an auto way to do creative and really expand thinking. And I think that that things like that, like people maybe just in auto don't recognize that there are that learning outside of auto, especially for marketers or creatives is still an important place to go. Right?
Absolutely, yeah. Going to see the perspectives of the put the other industries aside, great, you'll get other perspectives from other industries. But you will see things that aren't done the way that people don't want say experts, people suggest in automotive like, you know, it is very lineup, do it this way, this is how we do it. This is how we've always done it, you're gonna do it this way. Because that's, you know, that's the way we've always done it. I'm so fortunate to work for a very progressive organization. Even the owners went to the first Digital Dealer, I don't even know what year was. They were there. Like, they were one of the I don't know, how many people were like, a couple 100 people were there. Yeah, they were there. So they knew they had websites in 1990, or not in the 90s, they passed the first smailauto.com was already out there. That's so they've always they've always been forward thinking progressive. They, they keep marketing separate from sales, they understand that, like, I need to have a presence. I don't, I don't, the outcome is important. But what we do, how we position how we keep leads, funnel into the CRM, how do we keep that flowing? Right? I'm part of the flow of the system. And, and they understand all that, and it's great to keep keep me out of the public, right? keep me away from the sales. Let me do what I do. And it's really been a just a great relationship.
Kyle Mountsier 27:00
Man, that's so cool. I'm glad to I'm glad to hear that you're like the dealers recognize like that there's value in people like you and the people that you've built around you in building this, like whole ecosystem of content and marketing and paid advertising and organic content. And, and even like, you talked about community, you know, Paul, and I talk a lot about being the mayor of your town, that you've kind of done that. And so, really cool. And I'm can't wait to have we're gonna have you and Nate Greklek, and Brian Ortega on a stage talking about the way that you do content and exploring some of those ideas. I'm sure there'll be, they'll probably be like a new idea synthesized between the three of you while on stage, because all of you just think in those imaginative ways. So thanks for spending some time with with me today and with us, and, and I can't wait to see you in a few weeks at ASOTU CON.
Jeff Revilla 27:55
Yeah, I'm pumped. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. It's gonna blow up that stage, I'll tell you that. Yeah,
Kyle Mountsier 28:00
it's gonna be fun.
Paul Daly 28:05
there's nothing I like more than a practitioner, someone who doesn't just talk about it, and doesn't just do it now, but has shown a history of having done it for a long time, which just brings so much more weight to their advice and their strategy. And the fact that it doesn't happen overnight.
Kyle Mountsier 28:22
It doesn't happen overnight. And when you when you look at any strategy, especially one that isn't just based on transactions in any industry, it takes time to curate, you know, smell auto group didn't one month start to host videos on YouTube. And the next month be like, Yeah, we qualify for monetization. Yeah. It took a measured approach over years and years for them to get to that point. But now they get to like, go even quicker, because they get the ability to push back into their people. And I love the part that he talked about. The way he's pouring back into his people is not just purchasing them more equipment, but he's finding ways for them to learn, and not just learn inside of automotive, he's not just sending them to Digital dealer or DMSC. He's sending them to, like, ad creative. Yes, conferences, calm and all those cool. Yeah, he sent him to VidCon, which is like, that's what our industry needs is to take from other industries that are creating and doing really innovative stuff and go, Oh, yeah, we can, we can do that, too. Actually, not just that we can do it quicker and better, because we have the resources and people to do it. And they're executing on that.
Michael Cirillo 29:38
I wish this was more commonplace, right? Like, there's kind of this divide where it's like, look at all of these schmucks creating content, what do they possibly get out of this? And then there's those on our kind of our side of the fence who have been creating content for quite some time who've been in the creative game for quite some time. I mean, we've even had conversations about this. So It's really kind of refreshing to hear it from Jeff's perspective. It's because those efforts, were not just going into them being like, hey, you know what, guys, we should do a podcast. Or the equivalent to that on the dealer side being like, you know what we need? We need social media. Well, what are we going to post signs that say, "you should be here." To find them and account that as you should be here? Like, what? Is that a real example? Yeah, you know, like when they sold a car, and it's like, the caption is like, congratulations, Mr. Smith, and they forced him to hold a blank sign and then somebody photoshopped. Never hold the blinds like, Guys, legit people that are doing content creation, they understand. They understand how there's like a Hyperloop of demand creation and authority building that breaches the the four walls of the dealership, they that today, it may not necessarily map directly to monetization. However, if we tell our story properly, maybe it's our Google ads that feed into our website and our website feeds into our social and our social feeds into video creation. All of that then tells a story about who we are. And it's that thing that opens doors, and the transactions happen on the other side of that door. So that's something that I just really, really impresses me and being able to get to hear from, like you said, practitioners who are thinking outside of the box. We hope that you enjoyed this conversation with Jeff Revilla. On behalf of myself, Michael Cirillo, Paul Daly, and Kyle Mountsier this is Atto Collabs. Hope to see you soon.
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