Return of the Rebates, Farewell to the HEMI, Hello to GROK

November 7, 2023
We’re tearing up and tearing it up this Tuesday as we talk about the return of cash rebates from a less than likely contender. We also help Stellantis say goodbye to the Hemi (kind of), as well as preparing a handshake for the new AI jock on the block…Grok.
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Show Notes with links:

Amidst a notable deceleration in the EV market, automakers are adapting their sales strategies, reflecting a shift from a period of high demand to a more challenging landscape where incentives are becoming key to moving inventory.

  • Ford has reduced the price of its new Mustang Mach-E SUV by $7,500 due to "competitive realities.". Ford is also offering a $7,500 rebate on top of the federal tax credit on some F-150 Lightning pickup trucks
  • VW is advertising an ID.4 lease with no down payment.
  • "I think there was a miscalculation about demand and how much EVs would be coveted,” observed Joseph Yoon, an analyst at Edmunds, pointing to a mismatch between the industry's expectations and the current consumer buying behavior.
  • Ultimately, the discounts are a costly way to buoy demand, said Jeff Dyke, president of , a publicly held car retailer with dealerships around the U.S. “Is it sustainable forever? Absolutely not. They’re going to have to find a way to make these things cheaper,” Dyke said.

2025 will be the year the world will hear Scott Simons cry as Stellantis kisses the iconic HEMI goodbye. As the company is steering its light duty Ram trucks towards electrification.

  • In the meantime, a new plug-in hybrid model, the Ramcharger, is set to enter the market as a transitional option for consumers hesitant to adopt fully electric vehicles.
  • The company's strategic pivot includes replacing V-8 Hemi engines with six-cylinder "Hurricane" engines and older V-6 options in light-duty trucks.
  • Basic HEMI produces 394hp. One version of the new Hurricane produces 540
  • Stellantis faces penalties for not meeting U.S. emissions standards, driving a shift to improve the fuel efficiency of Ram models.
  • "Think of the cost per kilowatt-hour," Ram brand chief Tim Kuniskis stated, emphasizing the balance between affordability and performance in their upcoming electrified vehicles.

Your savant level, overly direct, college roommate AI Chatbot has finally hit the scene as Elon Musk's new company, xAI, has launched a language model named Grok. Grok boasts a more unfiltered and witty approach to AI interactions, challenging the norms of AI guardrails.

  • xAI leverages Twitter's data, now known as the X platform, to provide real-time world knowledge to Grok and is claimed to have fewer restrictions than competing AI models, meaning it is willing to engage in more controversial topics or "spicy" questions.
  • xAI has indicated that Grok, initially trialed by a select few, is set to expand its user base to those who request access. Additionally, Elon Musk has declared via the X platform that all X Premium+ subscribers will gain access to the model. However, xAI has not committed to a public release of any models at this time.
  • According to Musk’s post on X, Grok “loves sarcasm,” He continued “I have no idea who could have guided it this way. Grok is designed to answer questions with a bit of wit and has a rebellious streak, so please don't use it if you hate humor!”

Paul Daly: 0:25Yo we're tearing into Tuesday it's about to be wheels up on our way to Phoenix not quite yet today we're talking about return to the rebates, farewell to the Hemi and hello to grok today the people really isn't who I need they stopped

Kyle Mountsier: 0:44

rock rock that's kind of the same thing actually.

Paul Daly: 0:48

It is Gronk drives the cybertruck That's so true I can't wait to talk about this one. So good

Kyle Mountsier: 0:54

man I don't know if you were watching all over the socials yesterday but it was all used car week there's a ton of people out there from all across the auto industry they got to celebrate all dealer almond nominees for the 40 for their version of their 40 under 40 awards and we saw saw a few of the the so do kinda community are in and around they're all over the stage yesterday for

Paul Daly: 1:19

sure. I saw some asoto booth designs that used car week which is pretty dope

Kyle Mountsier: 1:23

I love it that I saw that

Paul Daly: 1:25

yeah the tone transferred these car week pretty sweet good plan. Good plan. I also saw that they were playing pickleball what an awesome networking event did

Kyle Mountsier: 1:34

you see that? Absolutely. Ball

Paul Daly: 1:35

network event

Kyle Mountsier: 1:36

pop ball stellar so gonna go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly good they write for each other

Paul Daly: 1:43

I can't wait we're gonna have pickleball so I love when other people come up with good ideas on that one let's take a check this out this showed up you'd even see this yet oh no I think I know who sent this but I don't know yet have to verify but in honor of a soda con 2024 In May

Kyle Mountsier: 2:02

oh my goodness what even it's an Oreo little Royals Jersey

Paul Daly: 2:10

I know exactly you sent I think I know who said it I won't say we're gonna verify and then say that but that's pretty dope I've never had you know I thought about this and I I'm pretty neutral and feelings about the Orioles like we should have just had a sort of kind of Philly again just so I could get Phillies.

Kyle Mountsier: 2:27

Like I did the basketball jerseys. baseball jersey and no,

Paul Daly: 2:31

but ASOTU CON is coming in hot in May. This year. Don't wait till September, Maine 2024. What is the week of the 13th? We'll just say that right now. Just the circle the week of the 13th. Week and we got a lot of extra stuff on both ends of the conference. We're obviously in planning phase right now. But um, if you want to be a part of it, sponsor collaborator, send an email to us please a m j at a so a m j at The perspectives I don't know if it's I know it's done. I saw it in the Slack channel. It's like it's out 3%

Kyle Mountsier: 3:06

Done. Okay, could go out today. It could go out by the way is record time for us? Absolutely. Because before 90 days, you

Paul Daly: 3:14

can budget for it. All kinds of fun. Look, we hope to double down on the community feeling it's all about conversations this year. We're crafting a very specific format so that people have time to talk with other people about the important issues. So check it out. No signup no logo design up. It will be soon though. It's okay. car wheels up. wheels up. Tomorrow

Kyle Mountsier: 3:38

morning probably or used car we get tomorrow's car

Paul Daly: 3:41

week. We're coming for you if you're there us car. We were sorry. We couldn't get there earlier. But we'll be there. Be there all day, Wednesday, all day Thursday. So we had a lot of fun. We'll be live podcasting from the podcast stage. I think we're a five o'clock on Wednesday evening and then two o'clock on Thursday on Thursday right after navcon We're gonna have Steve Greenfield we're going to have like the little winning party is going to migrate over to the podcast booth and we're going to talk about what's happening. I will give a surprise ending speaking and

Kyle Mountsier: 4:08

talking about what's happened. Whoa, skip the first story into the

Paul Daly: 4:13

winner today. All right. Amidst the notable deceleration in the Evie market, automakers are adapting their sales strategies reflecting basically a shift from high demand to we'll call it a more challenging landscape. Now incentives and rebates aren't coming back who would have thought it would be the EVS where the rebates for coming back so far as reduces the price of his Mk II by 7500. They're also offering here's the rebate part $7,500 on top of the federal tax rebate for some f 150 Lightning

Kyle Mountsier: 4:47

they said 10 grand off trucks.

Paul Daly: 4:51

Ah man oh man, it's been a long time since we've seen that. VW is also advertising an ID for lease with Z arrow down. Another little ones, not quite a rebate, but kind of. Um, so this is one of my favorite quotes ever. I, this is from Joseph Yun, an analyst at Edmonds pointing to a mismatch between the industry trends and their current consumer buy behavior. Here's the quote, I think it was a miscalculation about demand and how much EVs would be coveted. I think there was a miscalculation, I, Joseph, you are right on,

Kyle Mountsier: 5:27

I wish there was like 83 trigger pads I could hit. You know, something like that. Yes. The other one that I saw this morning was GM changed their forecasts of manufacturing and delivering 400,000 EVs through 2024. They change that forecast. They're not committing to that anymore. So like, there's just a changing tune. And we all knew this was like, no matter how much you try and manufacture demand, it is always consumers that come up with the demand, it doesn't matter whether demand is higher demand is low, they will change the way that things get manufactured, no matter the product sector. And so we're seeing the reality of that right now. I think it's good that it's happening now. And it's not like, oh, we produce 400,000 of these things. Yeah, good thing, they

Paul Daly: 6:15

could produce them faster. Right, exactly.

Kyle Mountsier: 6:17

But you know, just dealing with rebates and incentives, and how much these things are going to be reduced in price. And then what the volatility of that does to the used car market, we've seen that with Tesla adjusting prices over the years, like the Eevee market, new and used is so volatile right now. And I think dealers are are questioning, like what to do next. Actually, there's a quote in this article from Jeff Dyck, he's the president of Sonic automotive, he says, Is it sustainable forever? Absolutely not, they're gonna have to find a way to make these things cheaper. So people

Paul Daly: 6:57

didn't want to pay premium. You know, the one thing I really don't like about this is that when the government steps in, to artificially inflate demand, or push an agenda, private industry is left holding the bag in a lot of senses. So the dealers are probably be in good shape on this just because the manufacturers are going to be left figuring out what to do with incentives and things like that, and I think it'll equalize you know, EVS will become adopted, but just in a more consumer driven pace, and not a rhetoric driven pace. Funny thing about that, speaking of No, watching grown men cry Well, it's 2025 will be the year the world we'll hear a grown man very good shape too. I might add Scott Simon's partner at Carter Meyers Jeep Dodge all this the Lannisters and some others. As the Lantus kisses the iconic Hemi, goodbye. The company is steering its light duty Ram trucks toward the left electrification and discontinuing the Hemi engine and the light trucks starting in the year 2025. So let's moment of silence for that. I remember. I remember when the heavy came back, and it was the biggest deal. So here's the deal. In the meantime, in the meantime, to get rid of the Hemi, but they're introducing a new plug in hybrid model. Pretty awesome name, the ram charger. That's great name grok you're gonna square Baby rock in the RAM charge you're gonna have a fight. It's so the world is a transitional option for consumers hesitant to adopt a fully electric vehicle. So here's, I did a little research because this wasn't in the article. So. So in the so the RAM charger is coming out. It's a plug in hybrid model. When the truck doesn't have a Hemi in it, though. It actually is replacing a gas engine in where the Hemi used to be called another awesome name, a six cylinder hurricane, right? So basically, it's a V six a supercharged or turbocharged V six option. The Hemi produce 394 horsepower. The hurricane produces 540 horsepower. So I think people are gonna get over it pretty quickly. Or two. And some of this is driven by the Lantus facing penalties I guess for not meeting efficiency standards or emission standards in the US. So I don't actually we

Kyle Mountsier: 9:23

forget about that. There's actually a an average emission standards coming up. In 2025. The average across your brand has to meet a certain minimum standard highway and city combined mpg and this is why so many have moved to hybrids and moved to electric electrification or even removed larger SUVs and trucks from their model lineup because of the need to change how what like the overall average across all models is, you know, you see like some of the manufacturers like Mazda and Subaru just kind of like when it came out. They're like Matt, we've been doing that for years. But all these other manufacturers are faced with this, like massive penalties coming up here soon. So I get why why still antas is doing this because there's a bottom line impact to having that type of vehicle that just guzzles gas. That's right.

Paul Daly: 10:18

That's right. So hey, look, a lot of this is changing, but you know, still antas give it leave it to, you know, the Dodge brand to just come up with some and the RAM brand to come up with some just awesome, like Grunty names to throw into the mix.

Kyle Mountsier: 10:33

We'll take it speaking of awesome Grunty names next big way. Not to be outdone. By open AI and all of their announcements. Your savant level overly direct college roommate AI chatbot has finally hit the scene as Elon Musk's new company X AI has launched a language model named grok grok. grok boasts a more unit unfiltered and witty approach to AI interactions challenging the norms of AI guardrails. So here's the here's the big difference in this large language model to like some of the others like chat GPT X AI is going to leverage leverage Twitter's real time data. Twitter now known as x, obviously, what they want it to do is have fewer restrictions than competing AI models, meaning it's willing to engage in more controversial topics, or spicy questions. You may or may not know the guy that's kind of leading the charge here. X has indicated that grok initially trial by a select few is set to expand its user base to those who request access. Additionally, Elon Musk's has declared that the X platform that all x premium plus subscribers will gain access immediately to the model. However, x ai has not committed to a public release of any models at this time. This is the big quote ready? Musk posted on x. He said grok quote, loves sarcasm, he continued, I have no idea who could have guided it this tongue in cheek, said grok is designed to answer questions with a bit of wit, and has a rebellious streak. So please don't use it. If you hate humor.

Paul Daly: 12:18

I think every response should start with graphic. Right, right thing Oh, what is this boxing this this this? Like, he should just talk in that way? Look, this, I think we're just just have no idea. The level of insanity This is about to deploy on culture. Because you think of the speed of which we can develop content except through like GPT, and things like that, you're gonna throw in, like, a whole nother layer of sarcasm humor off tastes like people are going to be getting in big trouble, right? Obviously, because how are they going to keep the guardrails on and let it be funny and sarcastic, but also not delve into the world where there's like harm being done, right. And everyone's definition of that varies quite a bit. From a brand play perspective. Elon Musk has just taken his brand, and he's just made it AI. And whatever happens, he's going to be in the headlines all the time. This is this

Kyle Mountsier: 13:15

is what I'm gonna say is like, this is the play that everybody's going to have to make at some level or another, you know, yesterday also was open API's, but like, they're having these like little developer conferences now. And actually, Elon Musk was there. And I'm sure that this announcement coincided with the fact that he was there, you know, he was even quoted saying, in the future, basically, you'll just decide if you want to work because you won't have to, because you'll be able to have aI automating so many of the tasks that you do on a daily basis. But also now the new release of chat GPT, with their API allows for anyone to customize a GPT model, they're calling it GP Ts. So now like, you can own a language model for your brand. And that's exactly what he's done on a much larger scale. But this is going to be this is going to go a lot further and a lot wider. And so you're going to see these little like these, these largely language models kind of popping up that are brand specific. And so you're gonna have to be extremely diligent one with your own brand as to what data you feed it, but also recognizing that other brands are doing that too. And it's not just this like all say thing comes on the tails of one week earlier, President Biden starting to put in some executive orders around AI and so like, all of this is moving extremely fast. And I think any business owner that's not at least attentive to what's going on, is going to be left in the dust because a month from now, everything will have changed,

Paul Daly: 14:47

so about going to work or not. There are a lot of industries where AI isn't going to change that for you. I saw an article last week about like the safest, the safest positions and basically if you do anything move anything from one place to another? We're in good shape. But yeah, and I don't believe at all. There's a world where you wake up and decide whether or not I want to work today I go to work go to work for you like that's not that. I agree. It's just like this utopic version of technology. Remember when phones were going to do that when computers were going to do that? You remember the metaverse effect. And to do that we were going to travel anymore. We were just getting out of the metaverse futures gonna sit in like these apartments with goggles on all day. Remember all that everybody? You know what something about seeing a couple of cycles go through. I can see why people get cynical. Maybe it's

Kyle Mountsier: 15:35

just realistic. We're just going to take the Toyota approach, which is now what I'm calling the measured approach. It's just a new thing. I

Paul Daly: 15:42

wonder if Jim Farley is gonna want an AI bot now. When we call it actually isn't a bot issue call like far out? Right? Far out the new AI bot by Jim file. Either way, hey, if you're a used car, we're coming for you. We'll see you tomorrow. Aside from that will be on the internet. We'll see you there.

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