Ten Thousand Hours with Sarah Carter

August 29, 2022
Sometimes you meet someone for the first time on a Zoom call. This was the experience interviewing Sarah Carter of Upstart Auto Retail. Sarah has 20 years of experience in the industry, and she has a good perspective on the intersection of digital and physical, from the way leads are handled to how other countries are ahead of the US digitally. Plus, Cirillo considers skiing, and Paul learns what push/pull integration is.
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What we talk about in this episode:
Intro with Michael Cirillo, Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier.

11:00 Purpose and a drive to always do the right thing are two of Sarah’s values, and also values of Upstart.

13:23 The auto community is unique. Sarah believes that she started feeling more a part of it when she started viewing it as something she could add value to.

24:56 Paul learns what a push/pull integration is, in 2 simple sentences

28:13 The adoption of completing a purchase entirely online is increasing. It’s doubled over the last year and is now at 20%. Sarah thinks we’ll see that continue to grow, especially as younger generations start to buy more cars.

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Paul Daly: 0:00One of the fun things about doing this podcast is that we get to talk to people and meet them for the very first time.Sarah Carter: 0:13

This is Auto Collabs,

Paul Daly: 0:15

when they drop into the Zoom call, and we can sometimes just do very little homework. So obviously, I jumped on LinkedIn. And I said, like, Okay, who is Sarah Carter? You know, who is that? What does she do? And I find out all of a sudden, that there are a lot of shared people that you follow, and then you get a sense for the person, you know, and how they at least the trajectory by which they approached the world. And so that was kind of where I started this. And then when we, you know, start the conversation and get into we just had a whole lot of fun talking about things that had nothing to do with automotive. Absolutely. You know, one of the things you know, I did the LinkedIn scoop thing, as well. And one of the things that I think is really interesting, and I hope we get into is the fact that Sarah, who's coming on and hanging out with us today, started at a company like Autobytel, which if you know Autobytel, like at least current day, it's kind of one of those third party lead providers that you know, I don't want to say too much about, but that's kind of the attitude. And then you go all the way to like, Upstart, which is like, working with only the most progressive dialed in dealers in a digital and showroom perspective. So for someone to spend the 20 year engagement with auto, there's got to be just a wide swath of learning and understanding the industry. And I love that about so many people in auto they just like there's so many touch points you have across the industry, like rarely do you find someone that's like 20 years hard with the one person

Michael Cirillo: 1:50

send in faxes. Still, I'm talking about to your point about meeting people for the first time you remember that month that we were like all in on the metaverse in the industry. And

Paul Daly: 2:03

it was a good month. I've had

Michael Cirillo: 2:05

the thought has crossed my mind. Have any of us met this person? No. Okay, I'm considering coming to these calls where we're meeting somebody for the first time dressed like a banana. Because I want to prepare people for what the metaverse is going to be like, where we're having conversations sitting across a desk like we're buying fake real estate sitting across the desk from someone that's dressed like Donkey Kong, just to see what the real world reaction would be like. And of course, I think Sarah could handle that. She seemed really cool when we get to sit down with her. Have we sat down with her yet? That's left to be unsaid but we hope you enjoy that conversation. Sarah Carter Okay, so pre show you said you were in North West Montana, which of course is close to where I grew up in British Columbia, Canada. And then of course, Alberta, Canada. So my question to you is, have you ventured into the Kootenays Ferny? Maybe Have you have you made it to the Okanagan? Have you done those ski resorts?

Sarah Carter: 3:10

We have not no. So we have we have some room to well, COVID obviously also compromise the ability to get up there. And it wasn't recently opening. That's that's our intention. So beautiful country though.

Paul Daly: 3:24

Two things just happen. Michael Cirilo said eight words that I don't really understand if there actually were some very, very Canadian news. It just sounds like your

Kyle Mountsier: 3:37

boss, right. And Sarah said, they compromise the ability to you know, and I was like, that just sounded so structured compared to Cirillo being like I loved it it was so clutch so much, much so you're at outdoors family, it seems

Michael Cirillo: 3:56

like and,

Kyle Mountsier: 3:58

and this is a great start, this is a great start. This is the way that this is the way that all podcasts everywhere should start bending over and laughter That's the way that it should be. But so so, you know, what is what's kind of like your your mode of adventure when you are out and about and in the Great Pacific Northwest.

Sarah Carter: 4:20

It's a it's a bike, it's a snowboard, it's, you know, hiking. We're definitely an outdoorsy family. And I have three well actually I'm the only female so I have four boys. My significant other, it was amazing. And you actually were responsible and I am so really good team. So are you

Michael Cirillo: 4:43

like stick to the trails skiers like or do you like to venture off into the backcountry?

Sarah Carter: 4:49

We do like to venture off into the backcountry and now that the kids are getting you know older and they're on the team so they they far outperform us at this point already. So you Yeah, and the thing is, too is you know, with age, things get a little bit harder when you fall or when you you know, so right now I'm like, man, you know, maybe I should have gone back to school because I skied early on but that said, I can't imagine anybody who's I mean they I don't want to go it's like the Be careful Yeah, yeah. So but

Michael Cirillo: 5:26

have either view or you skiers, snowboarders?

Paul Daly: 5:31

No I have skied but I am not a skier I have

Kyle Mountsier: 5:34

spent decades saying, yes, there have been skis on my feet and down a hill, whether you know, elegantly or not so gracefully.

Paul Daly: 5:46

I don't I don't anticipate going in that direction. Sir. Like you said confessional. I can think of his ACL tears at this point, because

Michael Cirillo: 5:54

and I feel it's a shear.

Paul Daly: 5:58

Scare. Easy.

Michael Cirillo: 6:01

No, it gets worse than that. I'm either neither right. I grew up seven minutes from a world class ski resort. And I've never skied or snowboarded in my life.

Sarah Carter: 6:14

Michael, I don't know about this.

Kyle Mountsier: 6:17

To Cirilo because you have a low center of gravity.

Paul Daly: 6:22

To fall isn't that bad?

Kyle Mountsier: 6:24

All right, Sarah. So speaking of low center of gravity is your in motive. You're with Upstart Auto Retail and you have a storied history that didn't connect at all but we had to get out of Cirilo just being low center of gravity here. I love to hear because, you know, my, my, like, my relationship with you, as a person is basically the last five minutes of knowing that you are an outdoors person, and that you've been you'd have a storied history across automotive, everything, from marketing companies, to digital retailing technology to even being a part of helping a state association. And I found all that through LinkedIn, but there's gotta be some really cool stories in there. So take us back to kind of those early days in automotive and, and how, how kind of things built up from from, from jumping in with a company like Autobytel?

Sarah Carter: 7:22

Yeah, no, that's, it's all I think of that often now, especially because I'm coming up on 20 years, I'm like, Man, this is, we've seen a lot of change in our space. And, you know, Autobytel it when I came on with Autobytel. And, you know, I was working in the Pacific Northwest, and I actually helped them retention market. So all over the western US at one point working for them. And, you know, wasn't long before that they were faxing leads, you know, so, you know, obviously, lead generation had advanced by the time I got into the space, and oh, three and but I remember, you know, as a field representative, and and being young at that younger at that time, I had a trio and I and then I printed my Mapquest. So like when I went into a new market from a retention perspective, and was working with some of our partners, it literally had to print maps, I couldn't get them on the phone and the trio, you couldn't get a doc to load to look at it, you know, it was like, wow, it's incredible. So, and that kind of branched into internet sales process training. So that was I for quite some time between Autobytel and Izzo, I actually, you know, did in store training. And it was basic, you know, process response times, you know, some of the things that, you know, obviously, everyone in the retail environment, you know, values and understands and knows, and it's just, it's second nature now, but at that time, it was much different. So it's just, it's crazy to think how much our industry has

Kyle Mountsier: 8:45

do you think it's second nature now? I mean, changed. What really, like if you had to take like the purview of the automotive industry, you know, I know that, you know, Upstart is like a forward thinking brand and has a lot of innovative dealers as a part of the as a part of the dealer network. But like, as a whole, going back, you're like Autobytel, faxing, and not pulling up documents and print and map map prints, and then training people on internet processes? Like, have we gotten there? Or as an industry? Are we still kind of like, you know, still trying to figure out what you were doing in? 03 04 05?

Sarah Carter: 9:22

I, you know, to some extent, yes. And no, I think, you know, obviously the OEMs have put in more mandates in regards to our benefits and rewards to some of the basic aspects of process and response. But I will say I think in the context of the communications, the consistency of the communications, I would say probably not as much second nature. So good catch, and good call out that there are aspects of

Paul Daly: 9:47

there's an optimist. She's an optimist.

Sarah Carter: 9:50

An optimist. I so, yes and no nice to know. But yeah, you know, it's a conversation we still have today. It's something that we you know, We do in store training and in store training for all of our partners. And it is something that does, you know, leadership always is aligned with that. But obviously, your training sales team members and so forth, and it is new to them.

Paul Daly: 10:11

What do you think? So I also did a little LinkedIn profile scouring. And I was like, Oh, who are the same people we follow? Right? So I saw Gary Vaynerchuk in there, and Simon Sinek. And there was, there's another one that kind of registered with me, I'll think about it in a second. So kind of get a little idea, at least on how you think in some areas, and maybe process the world, thinking about, you know, the specific trajectory that you have in your career and the reach that Upstart has, and, honestly, the opportunity to actually leverage further into the industry. What principles do you think are the ones you particularly personally and with Upstart can lead by so I'm, like, not going real tactical, but I'm going like a little bit higher strategy, What principles are you bringing to the game?

Sarah Carter: 10:56

Yeah, no, that's great. I think, you know, obviously, they're one of the biggest things in life, obviously, you just want to have purpose, and you want to be adding value, and you want to, you know, really make a difference in in our space and our community. And having been a part of this community for years, obviously, and being so grateful to dealer, you know, the dealer, the dealer base dealer, World franchise dealers, because I wouldn't be here without any of them. Likewise, here, here. So in that respect, I think, you know, and it's a philosophy of Upstart, and a reason why, you know, I came to upstart just over a year ago is, you know, it was this drive to always do the right thing, even when it's hard. And that's actually, you know, it's part of our mission statement. And motto is, and it's reinforced all the time. And I think that's important, because, you know, we need to be transparent, we need to build trust with our partners, we need to add value. It not only gives us purpose, but it gives purpose to everything that we do as, as a team, as a community. In this space, you know, we're

Kyle Mountsier: 11:56

go ahead, well, no, so this word keeps coming up. And it's the word community, and we've started talking about it a lot. But people describe our industry as that that are inside the industry. More often than I, like, I never hear someone be like, you know, the, the, the franchise,

Paul Daly: 12:19

fatality community.

Kyle Mountsier: 12:22

Maybe, I don't know, maybe other maybe other verticals describe themselves that way. But I think I think, like, I'm just listening and hearing more people describe our industry as one big community, one big family. And I think that, you know, when you do think like doing the right thing, even when it's hard, providing value, like that's something that communities naturally have embedded in them. I'd love to hear, like your perspective on, like, when you felt that as when you started to feel personally, that it was this community that it wasn't just like, a career path that you were a part of, but you actually were a part of a bigger thing that you needed to make sure that you were always recognizing and impacting?

Sarah Carter: 13:08

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, you know, how they say, obviously, like, 10,000 hours to really, I think, to become not expert, but you know, well versed and understanding, isn't it. So, you know, early in my career, I would have said, apps, you know, it, that community environment wasn't there, because I, I, I don't wanna say I wasn't adding value, I think I was adding value, but I also just had didn't have the experience or the expertise. And then as I transitioned, I would say, probably, you know, I was almost 10 years into it, working for showroom logic started early on there, that's when I really saw the value and the purpose and the ability that I was able to through stories of my experiences, working with partners and and helping them to reach new levels. That's when I started to see it, you know, see it as a community. It's a people business also and to you over time, that's how you know you're creating your network, you're you've become, you know, over the years, you're at events together, you're working together side by side remotely. So I think that's where that sense of community has come from is I think when you become more well versed in the space and you really can you know, have purpose a but also be adding value consistently to customers and prospective customers, or just people in the space and our peers, because in 20 years to you know, still have a large group that I've either worked with in the past as well on the side and or cross paths with.

Paul Daly: 14:34

So, the FTC, there's been a lot of conversation around this lately. And now hang on, hold on. Okay, I want to hold this year.

Michael Cirillo: 14:49

We roll it across the table.

Paul Daly: 14:52

No, I think so. So we talked about this this morning in our morning show, and it's going to be a really significant point of focus. I guess because with the the rules that are being proposed, you're seeing kind of a lot of consumer response and a lot of YouTube influencers and other people stepping up on behalf of, you know, the so called consumer advocacy, which, which can be like very demeaning and very, I don't know, very snarky, etc, which happens to be very offensive to people who know a lot of dealers, and people like us who see it as a community. And we know how hard we work to make things better for the consumer day in and day out. What I wouldn't just say, What is your response to that, but I kind of know the answer to that question. How do you think that Upstart and the work you're doing there can actually help dealers to change that perception?

Sarah Carter: 15:47

Yeah. Well, sorry, guys.

Michael Cirillo: 15:51

Time to go. trikes cleaning?

Sarah Carter: 15:56

I wish it were that easy. No. I don't even know what's coming next. Now, did I? So in any case, yeah, sorry. Back to Back to the question. I think, you know, the, the thing that I among the things that I value working for, you know, a very progressive, innovative organization, who's you know, fairly, you know, decent in size, and obviously has the ability to pivot and be agile, is that when our, our dealer couple, a couple things I feel for everyone on this one, well, partners are sharing and or prospective partners are in the conversations, and we've got the information and the knowledge base of, of what's coming, and what we need to adapt to, like something like the FTC safeguards, and then we updated compliance, written regulation, you know, ADA compliance, you name it, is that, with that agility, we're able to adapt to what our partners and prospective partners are meeting? I was, you know, I was looking for that, too. I mean, I think, you know, having been in the business now for almost 20 years, and really wanting to provide, you know, state of the art products and solutions that actually are, you know, bring value. I absolutely saw that an Upstart. And it's proven to be true. And in fact, if, you know, we talked to, you know, partners, prospective partners, and or those that were, you know, innovating with, they see it as well, and, obviously take, you know, matters very seriously in regards to a lot of what's coming. And that's why when you said that time to say it, there's been a lot of it lately.

Kyle Mountsier: 17:33

as a platform that is managing communications, managing transactions, managing, like, as a platform Upstart. And, and especially because you're in the FinTech game, right? There's, there's like a whole onus on that partner relationship with the dealer, that you have to communicate that that you're doing and that you're part of, and you're making sure and protecting the dealer and storing all of this information. I'm sure there's like a heavy lift from a technology partner like yourself from a development perspective, that that has to pay attention to this. Because you're you're a partner with the dealer and making sure that they are, they're ready for these type of things. Right.

Sarah Carter: 18:13

Oh, 100%. But you know, I will say, and that's, I think the advantage that Upstart has had, and then to looking at our team, because I don't want to, I need to call out our team. They've done amazing work here. But we being we are essentially part of the financial world. And we're prior to the acquisition. With prodigy. These were a lot of these, you know, a lot of the policies and procedures and the teams were already there. So I mean, we have a legal team, we have a compliance team. So that was just so valuable in helping us to be quick on things when when we saw these changes. So yeah, so grateful for that. And they're taking it very seriously. And we have a lot of resources.

Michael Cirillo: 18:53

It makes me think of Dennis Rodman. Have you guys seen the last dance documentary? Like the dude's crazy, and the documentary highlights that but one of the things he's, I mean, you could argue he was the best rebounder in NBA history, because of the sheer amount of preparation that he put into anticipating the rebound like this guy could. He would just practice for hours having people throw up balls, he could tell you the trajectory and the velocity of the ball hitting the rim or the backboard where it would go and he was always one step ahead. And that's certainly something that I'm, that's coming to my mind as I'm listening to you speak like we have this team in place. We've got compliancy teams were able to position and anticipate where things are headed. And to the point of all of these conversations, I kind of liken that to Well, that's the preparation that's going to help us anticipate where things are going further. So I think that's that's just I mean, that's something that stands out to me, and it's very comforting to know that there's people with experience navigating this stuff and that the dealers aren't left to their lonesome

Paul Daly: 19:57

man. Okay,

Kyle Mountsier: 19:59

no one cares. Should I get a lot and now that we're getting into kind of like, you know the upstart product and what you guys are doing from a FinTech perspective, one question I get a lot from dealers, or marketers or people that are kind of looking in the area. I think a year and a half ago, I looked and there were at that point, I had a spreadsheet of 34, digital retailing providers, right that were out there in the space and, and it seemed like every week, there was a new entrant into the DR space, and that that's definitely slowed down as like, you know, the digital push in the pandemic has has decreased, there's less new entrants, but even still, there's there's still over 30 providers working in the showroom, retailing and digital retailing space. And so setting yourself apart is similar to like a dealer setting themselves apart from eight other Nissan dealerships in the area, it's it's, you know, creating a unique value proposition is not easy. And, you know, so I'd love to hear from you. Just like not, you know, there's like table stakes and in in digital retailing, I think that we've all just kind of come to recognize, like, if someone's not doing this on the website, or in the show, then then they haven't won. What are the things that that set you apart as a partner to dealers in this, like, customer relationship management, you know, perspective and how you give dealers the ability to execute on a day to day basis?

Sarah Carter: 21:20

Yeah, no, that's a great question. Because yes, it definitely is a competitive space. And we do have a lot of, you know, a lot of providers out there valuable providers. That said, I would say, you know, just thinking three would obviously be configurations, we have a highly configurable product, I use, I use that because I know, you know, we strategies and processes within single points to large dealer groups is going to be very, you know, variant. And there's different philosophy or strategy. So our systems can essentially be very configurable. I would also say integrations because we don't want to reinvent the wheel on many tools that dealers utilize. So we actually can speak in a push pull environment, from CRM to valuation tools to acquisition tools, which is something that's very unique in our space, you know, so the lending, I think, lending, you know, and the AI machine learning aspect, and how we can help streamline that for our partners and drive efficiency too. And all of these things are essentially, you know, to help dealers drive efficiency, but the end result is the customer the guest, right, we want to create a solid consumer experience that buyers want from from our space. And that's where we really focus. And I, you know, one thing I didn't mention, so let's make it four would also be the in store application of what we offer. I mean, it's, it's a full solution to drive efficiency for customers coming in the store or in a virtual environment. So you can either you can do, you can do the purchase, where the customer wants to whether it's service, in a service department, outside, off site, you name it, we have the resources. And, and again, the configurability allows for, you know, various adoption formats or policies,

Kyle Mountsier: 23:03

you know, I know that this word integration gets thrown around a lot in our industry, it's like AI and integration to trigger words that make some people squirm. And some people celebrate and all that type of stuff. And, and so I'd love for you to because you said this, that you said push pull. And I would love for you to explain a little bit maybe deeper for those that hear the word integration. And some companies use that as like, oh, we integrate with your CRM, and which means they they send the lead in ADF to a CRM, right. And then there's then there's like, deeper level API integrations that are that are tying in like rich data, and, you know, and multiple different aspects to be able to present someone with a with a with an with a payment, but can you dig into specifically like the push pull integrations that you guys are utilizing to execute some of this transactional data?

Sarah Carter: 23:56

Yeah, absolutely. So from the CRM standpoint, what we do obviously, when a customer comes in, or the first you know, the first point of contact, and when capture, we capture PII, or when the dealership captures PII, we will push that in ADF XML because of course, we don't know if that customer is already in the CRM. After that, what happens is it attaches in the notes section, and then it's, we're also pulling the customer profile information from the CRM into the iPad and in store environment. So it when I say push pull, it's essentially we're sending everything into the CRM. And we're essentially eliminating that duplication, so to speak that we hear so much about. And then of course, as well, giving the sales team as well as a customer easy access to pick up right where they left off, because all of that is in the CRM and pulling that back into the system so that they can seamlessly drive that car experience or part purchasing experience. All

Paul Daly: 24:47

right, as the resident least technical person on this podcast. How would you explain that in like a sentence or two for some of the other listeners who probably you're smarter than me.

Sarah Carter: 25:01

Yeah. So essentially what we do is we allow our partners to pick up right where the customer left off, because the systems are talking to each other so that they don't have to go into multiple tools,

Paul Daly: 25:13

which is really hard to do. Right, obviously, and if you can make it feel like it was easy, right, and solve that problem, right? That's why That's why everyone else says like, why can't you just make it do that? And you're like, well, all the stuff that you just said before I asked that question is why

Michael Cirillo: 25:32

I would like to underscore how big of an undertaking this is because in coming from Canada, to the United States, it has been absolutely shocking to me that I've seen people paying for their groceries with checks. I haven't seen a check in 23 years. Because like in Canada, obviously, given our population, all all financial systems are connected, like everything's connected to the Bank of Canada, it is like Apple banking,

Paul Daly: 26:04

they give it all to the government first, and the government gives them back some of it and the government makes

Michael Cirillo: 26:08

you think you're getting things for free. You know, with Chip, greed, like everything is interconnected. I remember I was talking to our bank, when we set up our bank account down here. I'm like, so you guys do the online, like, you can pay your bills online and all that she's like, Yeah, of course, what we do is we write a check on your behalf, and then send it to the supplier. I was like, Why? Why is it the 1870s? What is happening? Whereas in Canada, it's all interconnected. So something as simple as what you're saying, I really want to kind of shine a spotlight on because it's not only a huge undertaking, especially in the wild west America, but the simplicity of being able to give that customer the ability to just pick up where they left off is huge. Can I ask you one question, just to forecast a little bit? Um,

Paul Daly: 27:02

this would be the last question, Michael make it a good one. No pressure.

Michael Cirillo: 27:07

Snowboard Do you have?

Paul Daly: 27:12

We know you don't care about that.

Michael Cirillo: 27:13

No. You could say a name brand. And I'd be like, we could can I give that a Walmart? I'm curious about forecasting, obviously, as we as we move deeper into the era of giving consumers the ability to purchase online. What's the forecast look like? What are your anticipating the percentage of car shoppers will look like maybe 3 5 7 10 years out even, like, hey, we believe that this percentage of the market is going to want a fully online transaction that we're going to be able to facilitate?

Sarah Carter: 27:50

Yeah, I will. I mean, I think we'd be at a much higher rate right now, if we, you know, had all the tools and resources that you know, and there are, you know, we do have partners who do you know, essentially just that, but it's also letting consumers know, or bringing awareness in our, in our world of the franchise world. Non, the non Tesla's and Carvana's is of the world. That said, I think I saw something come out and you enter, have you guys thought it was from cars.com as a CNBC short clip, and I believe they said, it was almost 21% of car buyers are buying online. And the thing is, with inventory shortages, people are having to go farther. So they are doing those transactions online, going on site or having the vehicle transported. So we're seeing, you know, through COVID, and the inventory shortage, consumers are adapting this much faster. And if if, in fact, we're looking at the 21% are completing deals online, it's doubled in the last year. So what pace are we going to continue? And, and obviously market, the market will continue to drive that I think between the inventory shortage, and essentially this macro situation, we don't really know where we're going. We don't know. We don't know where we're going. But we have some some guesses, I guess, some very educated guess. So I just, you know, I think that will continue to drive it. I think we'll continue to see better and better or stronger and stronger adoption, especially with younger generations, who are like you were talking Michael, I studied in Germany back in 98 99. And everything was electronic at that point there. And they came back and we were in this analog world and and it didn't happen for many years. It's still you know, as you're saying, it's still still doesn't necessarily happen.

Paul Daly: 29:26

Wow, these you forget. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for spending some time with us. We know you have a zillion things to do. And we really appreciate the fact that you took a little time out of your day to share with us and the Auto Collabs community on the behalf of Kyle Mountsier Michael Cirillo myself. Thanks for joining us. Thank

Sarah Carter: 29:42

you so much, everyone. I really appreciate it Michael Paul, Kyle, so nice to be here with you.

Kyle Mountsier: 29:51

I've heard this said before this 10,000 hours thing to become an expert or become, you know, a man Master in your field. And I love that she brought up that, that it wasn't, it's not just 10,000 hours to become an expert to become a master, but it almost takes that long to understand the dynamics of the industry that you're in. And I think that we need to take note of that as an industry recognizing that there are some people that have just come into our industry, that that we're trying to convince like, No, this is good, this is great, this is good, but it's going to take time. And it's going to take time, not just internally, but externally, for us to like, build up this confidence in the culture and perception of our industry, weather and not just that, but the communication of things like digital retail, or, or the acceptance of these things that that it takes anyone 10,000 hours to get there. So how much do we have to communicate both internally and externally? is kind of the question that I'm left after hearing Sarah, kind of walk through her journey toward understanding the scope of automotive retail.

Paul Daly: 30:57

I was just shocked, actually, by the fact that number one Michaels bank, writes checks on his behalf physical checks on his behalf. But talking about that level of It's easy in America to think that, you know, like, we're very tech advance because we have all these modern conveniences, and we have all this conversation. And entrepreneurship is a main focus of culture, right? It's all over television and YouTube and you know, Instagram profiles, entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship, and then then to realize that there's all this advancement going on, and has been going on in other places, all of a sudden, you start to realize why, why it's still so difficult to connect all of these systems together, because you realize the legacy that we're still operating on in a lot of basic areas, like even check writing, like goes really deep and really wide. Due to

Michael Cirillo: 31:47

goes further than that. When you buy a car in Canada, maybe it's not the same for all providers down here. But when you buy a car in Canada, you are not leaving the dealership, without your banking information, it all gets connected into the system. They're like your first your first car payment will come out on the 15th of the following month, and await like a loan closing. It's like a loan closing dude, when we bought our car here, we left the dealership, and my wife and I, it might have been like three or four days. And we're like now what we didn't. We didn't give them any of our banking, how are they going to get the payment. And like a month and a half later, we got an email from or not an email, a letter in the mail from GM Financial being like, here's how you can set up your payments. I'm like, What the heck is this

Paul Daly: 32:32

and they didn't even give you a QR code to go to it. You had to type in G M financial.com. Forward slash slash forward slash forward slash.

Michael Cirillo: 32:42

It's for me as an outsider coming into this ecosystem. I'm like, it is so archaic, by the way if your bank has the initials, W F and Brian Ells Bells, Warren Largo, Largo, then just so you know, they're writing checks on your behalf to it's the most archaic.

Kyle Mountsier: 33:04

It's unbelievable. Well, we know that companies like upstart and Sarah are pushing back on the archaic nature of retail of technology in our industry can't wait to see many of you and her at a soda con soon. On behalf of Michael Cirillo, Paul J. Daly and myself. This has been auto collapse. We'll see you next time.

Sarah Carter: 33:26

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