Three Letter Words with Chad Graves

SPEAKERS

Kyle Mountsier, Paul Daly, Chad Graves, Michael Cirillo

Paul Daly  00:01

So, we always laugh and when we hit record

00:12

this is Auto Collabs.

Paul Daly  00:14

If you don't know, like, we sometimes just drop into the episode, like we're in the middle of laughing at something because we are.

Michael Cirillo  00:20

And because we're, I think we're all mildly afraid that once you hit that record button, and I say something stupid, it's gonna be on the right. Well, that's

Paul Daly  00:29

usually why I try to hit it midstream. So

00:31

we can catch Michael, but

Paul Daly  00:32

he's pretty good at dodging. Today, we have Chad Graves on the show. And the very first auto conference I went to it was a CBT conference. I didn't know anybody, but I met Brad Paschal, who we're all friends with. And he's like, I'm going out to dinner with these guys from a company called Reunion Marketing, and I didn't have any friends or anywhere to go. So I said, I'll go. And the Reunion crew made me feel so welcome. And they just kind of welcomed me right in to what I learned to be the community of automotive industry partners. And you know, I think that's one of the reasons that people do business with Reunion is because when you meet the team, you realize like, these are the kind of people you just want to be around.

Kyle Mountsier  01:10

Yeah, I mean, who who doesn't want to be around a guy now this isn't Chad, but who doesn't want to be around a guy that good looking? I'm sure that runs a podcast, and is also like a semi pro wrestler, right? Which is Dane Seville. That's right. Isn't that crazy? So you've got people learn personalities like that. And they're not afraid to be that or be that part of the personality and and Chad is an extension of that team as well. And one of the co founders there. So yeah, I just like it is there that like you smile when you're around New Type team?

Michael Cirillo  01:46

They do put off that vibe, though, right like that. Yes. That you're part of the group, you're part of the crew.

Kyle Mountsier  01:52

It's they should call themselves Reunion Marketing. Because

Michael Cirillo  01:55

because it feels like a reunion.

Paul Daly  01:58

I mean, that I think that is probably like something to do with why they gravitated toward that name. And it kind of meant something to do with like the guys getting back together. But that's I legitimately felt like that when I was out to dinner with them. For the first time. I felt like, Hey, these are the guys that I know already that I'm comfortable around. So excited for you to hear a little bit from our friend Chad Graves. Chad man, it's so good to be sitting with you. Finally, we were just talking how I don't think we've ever podcasted together before.

Chad Graves  02:33

I don't think so man, despite having known you for several years here. I think this is my first time. So I'm super excited to be here. chat with you guys today ahead of this awesome event you guys got going on.

Paul Daly  02:45

Now, man, we appreciate that. You know, we were we were talking about we always like to think about, you know, what the what our guests can really bring that's kind of unique and timely to what's going on. And the thing that came up when Kyle and I were talking was the fact that you were a part of a large internal marketing team. In a previous life. Can you tell us a little bit about the details like what that team look like what the group was like? We'd like to like just kind of flesh that out for a second.

Chad Graves  03:15

Yeah, it's super fun. It's obviously where I kind of got my career starts. So even the backstory is, I'm a second generation automotive kid my dad worked for this dealer group is the elite Automotive Group here in Raleigh, North Carolina, where Reunion's headquartered today. Here's a gym there for I think, right around 30 years. So a lot of longevity, right? And when I was coming out of college, I actually did not really want to be in the auto space. Actually, I kind of want to go a different route and do my own thing.

Paul Daly  03:43

Oh, yeah, I never heard that. do my own

03:46

thing. Right. And then it has a way of sucking us all in a little bit. Right? Um, so I was coming out of college, ended up saying, you know, let's, I'll give you an interview with shots. What happens I interviewed with Dave Spannhake, who is the CEO of Reunion today. We immediately hit it off and at that time it was leaked was absorbing the marketing agency who had been doing that outsource work for a long time. So I walked right in as an account executive. So I was kind of managing the marketing for anywhere from 10 to 14 stores out of the 33. Dave was there Matt Triana came on board Andrew coaches, some of us who co founded renew together Dane Saville. And so we're doing pretty much all aspects of SEO, video creation, social media, pretty much everything except from paid search in house, everything from even you know, TV, radio, print, event management, the whole nine yards. So at that time supporting 33 stores, we had a team of around 20 or more folks, actually. So it was a pretty comprehensive deal. And it created a lot of success for that group over in really just a short time the way that we were looking at data making decisions. You know, when I started there And most of the stores that I worked with were spending about equal and this is 2012. So not that long ago, right? Spending about equal parts in newspaper prints as they were on digital marketing. And so, you know, we started kind of pulling things back. And, and they have a really great team, general managers, folks like that, that, you know, were in place for a long time, they were most of whom were pretty apt and excited for some change. And it created some great results, which ended up helping us, you know, launch Reunion later down the road, but being in and out of dealerships every day, I don't know that you could provide a better training ground for what we inevitably did.

Kyle Mountsier  05:34

Well, yeah. And that's, I mean, just thinking about the timeline of that, you know, having 20 plus people at a 30, store 30 Plus store, rooftop group, managing the marketing is still we don't find that in automotive, so super progressive from just a mentality as as a group was that, you know, were you a part of the growth? Or was that, you know, kind of established when you came in? It seems like, even still, dealer groups are, are not finding efficiencies with with internal marketing teams today. And yet, you're back in 2020 12, with that team, you know, finding those deficiencies.

Chad Graves  06:16

Yeah, I think it's, it takes the right mix, right. I mean, I think that, you know, those of us that were there at that time, and really looking to get started, we really felt like a big part of that team and a big part of that dealer group. And we were really, you know, I don't wanna say put it under the pressure, but we definitely felt responsible for the success, right, like when the dealerships that I worked with sold a lot of cars and had great months and had all time profits, like we felt partly responsible for that. And I think that that was so huge. And I think that's one of the things where, you know, marketing, and dealerships still struggle a lot today is like, how much of that success can be attributed to the marketing and advertising? Right, it's kind of a tale as old as time. But, you know, it was great. And I think, you know, the last three years that were there, they saw some explosive growth in the website, traffic leads, phone calls, things like that, which has propelled that success and help tell that story a lot, too.

Kyle Mountsier  07:08

So what was the impetus from it sounds like a ton of your current team, at least the leadership and CO founding team and Reunion, what was the impetus for moving out and saying, Hey, look, we need to support other dealers and kind of do this on our own, because you see, so such success over here in the dealer group, and now moving to supporting a wider swath of dealers across the country and, you know, held and held in the southeast. Yeah, but why was that, like the decision made instead of continuing to kind of press in?

Chad Graves  07:39

It was a lot of thought, a lot of time. But I think all of us were wanting to do something bigger, right? I mean, you know, that group was it's rock solid, still have multiple stores all within this market, but that's where it was gonna stay. Right. And I mean, at the time, you know, I was younger, and definitely ready to take a risk. And I think all of us were, I mean, Dave was the only one with kids at the time. And, sure, by thought he was a little bit crazy. But I think we all believed in the team, we believed in the folks around us, we believed in the strategy. And, you know, we left with with no clients in May of 2015, and have built up and continued from there, but it was a lot of discussions, a few beers. Right. But we had a great time. And, you know, we never looked back. And I think we believed in each other. And I knew we had something special even at that time, a core group that was willing to work and willing to put the hustle in, as you guys know, that's half the battle is finding the people that know that you can hold them accountable to work just as hard as you're willing to put that in. And I think we knew we had that we knew we had something special and want to see how far we could take it and how exciting it could be and do something good. I do think that there we also saw a void in at that time, and I think other companies have sprouted up since then. But you know, at the time, pretty much everybody was working with only a few digital marketing companies and website providers and, and, you know, we saw a chance to be a boutique, more hands on style company that we could really make a difference for dealers all around for,

Paul Daly  09:10

you know, what do you it's, it's unique, I think that you have so many people in a company, that have that pedigree of having been in the stores day in and day out for a long period of time doing the same thing together. As as an industry partner as they were doing together, right on the dealer side. That's a that's a pretty unique story. Which means when you walk into dealerships, and you get to work with dealers all over the country. What are the what do you think are the what are the things that stand out? Like the the trip lines that stand out where you see a lot of different sizes of internal marketing teams and other dealerships like when you walk in you definitely have that experience die where you're gonna like, oh, you know, I understand where they're getting tripped up there. I kind of know what's going on there even though they haven't told me yet. What are the common ones that kind of come up,

Chad Graves  09:58

man, you know, I was I just bought a new vehicle with my wife. And I was talking to her in the showroom, which I can tell you, we leased a new Mazda CX five. So that one she's had her eye on, we're expanding our family. So I needed a bigger SUV. And it's been great. Absolutely love it. But going through the shopping process, not buying for the first time in my life, really, from somebody I knew was a whole different ballgame now, right. Um, but I'll tell you, I was joking with her in the showroom, saying, you know, I can tell within about five minutes of being in a dealership, how its performing and how its functioning in a normal market. Right? I wouldn't say that we're in today where, you know, they showed me three, and they're like, this is what you can buy. This is a little different today. Right. But I think that, you know, the first thing I look for Paul, and I think this goes back to, you know, the car business is a people business before anything else. If I walk in the dealership, and I can make it all around the showroom without anybody asking me how I'm doing what I'm looking for, is anybody helping me? That's usually strike one for me, right? And it's, I think it's our people. And even if I'm waiting and working with a salesperson who's going to be that second point of contact to that manager, that's going to walk by and say, Hey, I know you're working with all but you know, I want to make sure if anything, you know, my name is Chad, and or Kyle is in the back, he'll help you, you know, like, that kind of process. But I think the other thing that a lot of progressive dealerships are doing more is, is showing off what they are doing community wise, things like that as soon as you walk in the showroom. But you know, you can usually tell, I think to buy where the management is sitting in relation to the dealership, are they still up in the classic tower? Looking down over everybody? Are they you know, are they out? Are they in meetings? Are they doing that? And there's different styles of management today. But usually, those are kind of some of the things that I look for just to get a pulse on? What kind of dealer am I going to be talking to today? And it comes in all shapes and sizes.

Kyle Mountsier  12:01

That's really interesting. Because when you think about, like, the relationship between what you just said, which is all practical operation stuff, right. And your perspective on the industry is primarily from a marketing perspective, right? In the dealership and outside. And I think a lot of people, that's some of the struggle in what you said early that, that there's this disparity between like, what's marketing doing, what's the dealership doing? And what's not recognizing that those are so intertwined, right that, like, if one's doing well, the other one's probably doing well, at the same time, because they're building blocks that stack like intermingled together, not separate buildings that are trying to do different things, right.

Chad Graves  12:50

Most definitely. Yeah, I think, you know, going back to that original experience, you know, like we helped implement or not implement, some stores already had it, but like your vAutos, and your MaxDigital's that really brought online merchandising, things like that into the forefront. And, you know, there's things in that system that help power marketing, and there's things that you can do with marketing to help make that system, you know, that everything should tie together, right. And that's ultimately when we're looking for like our ideal fit ideal partner, it's somebody who's willing to lift up the gates from a transparency perspective and say, hey, look, this is what I have going on here is what I have going on here. How can we power these ideas together to formulate an entire dealership strategy instead of looking at everything from marketing operations, but you know, and even within marketing, it can be Sales Service parts, and those silos are what can be really tough for I think, everybody, it's just a matter of how much do we want to talk about it and acknowledge that.

Paul Daly  13:40

So you have actually a pretty broad swath of products at this point you help you've you plug in and a lot of places and a lot of different dealerships? Where do you find the most, the most helpful place or the most common place where dealers need you to come in and help? What's the most common place, because like, one of the reasons we're doing even the Auto Collabs podcast, is because we say we want to introduce people to the we want to introduce dealers, to the people, and the personalities and the products, you know, that they're going to experience at ASOTU CON. And also, obviously, we know like, only 600 People are going to get to go to ASOTU CON, right, it's going to sell out, that's all there's going to be, but a lot of other people are going to be listening to this. Um, so I think it's important, like for you to talk about the most common thing you help stores with and why do you think that's the most common thing?

Chad Graves  14:33

Yeah, definitely, it would have to be our like SEO, search engine optimization service. I mean, it's definitely where we got our start. It's definitely probably the product that I'm the most passionate about. It's our leading product today. So let's do

Paul Daly  14:44

this. I'm gonna pause you right there, because we were trying to do what we say teach to the back of the room, because as marketers, right, the three of the three of us are marketers, so like, just keep rolling with it. But we have a lot of operations people, a lot of finance people, and we think it's really important when people learn about it. Other areas of the store. So, take take us back and just take us to like, you know, like, explain it like, um, five, what is what is SEO?

Chad Graves  15:08

So the best way I explain it to people like in general, right, or if we've never heard of this is my goal with SEO is to get you to the top page of Google without you having to pay on a cost per click basis, right. So you do any kind of Google search, whether it's a car, it's a restaurants, a doctor's office, you got those lovely ads that Google makes a lot of revenue on, it's another service that we provide, right. But then below that, there's that rich, organic stuff, spot 1 2 3, you've got the Google business profile on the right hand side. And all of that below the ads with the Google business is really what SEO is all involved. So SEO, executing an SEO strategy will get you to those spots, those coveted spots, you know, what exactly is SEO and search engine optimization? And give me another layer of like, what makes good SEO? Yeah, basic level of what makes good? So super basic? I think there's a couple pillars, right. Yeah, content, which is on your site, you have local SEO, which is a branch, right? This is all off the website, making a name, address, phone number, things like that are accurate across the web, then your third component, I think, would be your technical elements. This is your key words, this is the stuff that's really hard to judge, but a good trusted SEO partner is gonna be able to show you what they're doing there. And then the fourth component, which is really spelled out in the last couple years, is gonna be the users experience on the website, right? And if you're managing all four of those pillars, to a degree, you're going to see success, you're going to see advancements within your strategy.

Paul Daly  16:41

Gotcha. So if I'm in St. Louis, and I and I, you know, Google, Used Honda's near me, and you have done a great job with your SEO, the paid ads are gonna show up, but everyone knows their paid ads and the top organic results, you're gonna pop up because you've done a good job with those things that you've just explained. Yeah, that's the goal. Okay, good. I just wanted to I just wanted to get our benchmark down. Now you dirty now you can get

Chad Graves  17:06

I think you summed it up, man. I think that that's, you know, I think right now, where most dealerships are is they're doing a decent job with the search you just mentioned. But new, right? New Honda Accord for sale, St. Louis. But what about the other aspects of your dealership, Honda tires, Used Honda Accord. Those are the kind of things where we're seeing big opportunities to those things are dominated by third party sites independents, and I'm a big believer, I can hop on a soapbox all day, about, you know, investing more, and bringing people to yourself, where you know, you're more likely to close those leads and deals than investing in other people to drive your traffic for you. Right. And I can talk about it all day. But that's, we won't go down that rabbit hole.

Kyle Mountsier  17:50

Real quick. And I think this is where because a lot of owners, operators, general managers, sales managers are or even service managers kind of go like, they just go, you know, someone's doing my SEM and my SEO, right? And they're like, broad swaths together, and it's like, yep, yep. Okay, so I'm paying someone to do that. Right. And there's a massive distinction in how those two operate both likes, how they're executed, and how they operate in time. I think that one of the things that's really interesting to me and that you probably see a lot and you're saying, like, SEO is our leader, is it's hard to communicate the like, on off switch of SEO? Unlike paid ads, right? Correct. paid ads can drive traffic, boom, right, you can pay for a whole bunch of traffic. But SEO similar to brand is much more a long game. And what and what I know about it is and you can kind of talk through this, is that the build to SEO similar to brand, right? They they almost actually, interestingly enough, SEO and brand actually live in the same stream pretty closely. Sure, but Right, the build is a lot longer build than even the data then even the drop off. Right? So the bill of like how long we're doing this, and the growth strategy actually takes a lot longer than what when you stop it, the pain hits, right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like what you've experienced in, you know, people kind of treating SEO, like it's any other, you know, paid media or agency performance metric.

Chad Graves  19:42

Yeah, I think nailed it. I mean, it does take I equate it to the Marathon of digital marketing, right, like you got to train a little bit harder. You got to train a little bit longer, but the results are gonna last a little bit longer, right as opposed to just some of the Sprint's that are out there. You know, SEO should take four or five six months. And then, you know, we recently dug back into some numbers and looked at pages we built for dealer in 2017, it was actually a Honda store 2017 accord 2017 rep or excuse me, CRv. And those content pages are still getting traffic today because of the way that people were searching. And they're looking for those specific vehicles. So like, they're getting, you know, residual traffic years down the line, right. So we definitely, we can show it in the data where people are still going to these pages, because that's what they're looking for. They've done their search, they've done their bit to understand that now, I really want the 2017 model because that as a feature that maybe 2016 didn't have, right, and it's in the price point that I can get the 2018 is, so the long game is huge. And then when you talk about cutting it off, we're seeing a lot of folks right now coming to us, that didn't decide to cut things off in 2020, or even late last year, whenever they set up. I don't have that model anymore. And I don't need SEO because I'm gonna get it anyway. But now what's happening is models are ramping back up. And their sites have dipped below the competition. And they're they're like, Well, how'd that happen? It's like, well, those guys never turned off the faucet. And you did, right. So they Google started to say, Okay, awesome. You know, this is the most authoritative dealer in town now. And now I'm going to reward them for, for being on that and being maintaining it. And so I think that's going to continue to happen. And, you know, you could continue that even further by talking about Google Business Profile made, I don't know, 20 to 30 documented updates last year alone, right, like not, and we're seeing people that turn that off. Now they're wondering, well, I don't understand why my service page has no photos and no listings and no categories. And it's like, Well, I do because when they rolled that out, you weren't doing SEO, problem solved?

Paul Daly  21:50

No. I'm not gonna say I told you. So.

Chad Graves  21:57

You can't say that, you know, we know that Google is going to keep change, guys. I mean, that's not a secret to anybody, right? So it's, if you're not really to invest in that long game, then you know, and build up your own website, then then what could be more important than that? Right. And that's kind of how I feel about it, obviously.

Paul Daly  22:13

And it sounds so much to me, like, as you're talking about it and explaining it a little more, it seems so much to me, like the way relationships work. Right, it takes a while to build trust, and you can lose it much faster than you can build it. And even even in the terms of like, dipping your toe in rankings, if you just like that relationship that doesn't get cultivated. Like there's not, there's not, you know, like Constant Contact, or like at least the check in every once in a while. You just start to migrate toward the people in your life that are checking in and are there so I just like as you're talking about it like this is just like relationship, which is a lot different than a paid ad or hiring somebody to come in and do something like you, okay, I hire you, you come in, and you do the work, and then you leave. And I don't think about you anymore. Relationship is altogether different. So SEO is like, kind of the mature martial law

Chad Graves  23:01

game. Yeah, it is. It is it's but that you can have a lot of fun with it. And you can, you know, we're doing some cool things that are helping with conquest and traded. And like, if you're willing to give it that long time to nurture, like you said, it's amazing what dividends it can build, instead of having to just kind of pull and

Paul Daly  23:19

you say, you say long time, right? I think that people were like, What does long time mean? Like, how do I gotten this one time? I

Kyle Mountsier  23:27

tried something for 90 days felt like forever?

Paul Daly  23:31

canceled? No, but for real, like, how much time do you think you need to get a noticeable bump in your results? Because you've been doing SEO? Well, what would you say is a long time 

Chad Graves  23:44

four months is kind of our benchmark? Yeah, it's just not too terribly long. Right? Oh, it's, yeah, I mean, for and then if you're really talking about getting into like, without a doubt, differences, mostly, you know, I think that six months window is very adequate. That's four months, we always say, you know, we've implemented strategy at that point. And by the end of that fourth month, and you should start to see that steady growth. But usually, if we're looking at data internally, it's usually on that four to six month window, and we're saying, Okay, this is somebody now that should be seeing those results. And if they're not, let's figure out why. Why that is. And now we've got to tweak our own game plan, right and come back to, to what really we need to do here.

Paul Daly  24:28

So being realistically if someone's listening to this podcast when we launch it or within you know, a certain 30 days of us launching it, sure if you start to implement or at least take a step toward doing you know, executing better SEO. Literally by the end of the year by Christmas season, right you should see noticeable differences in your organic traffic, noticeable differences. And I don't know if you've heard but people are saying like things might get financially. Country I've heard a thing or two about

Chad Graves  24:56

I've read that somewhere. I just pass it on YouTube.

Paul Daly  25:00

ads are somewhere that something like that.

Kyle Mountsier  25:02

Right? Instagram story about that

Paul Daly  25:05

wasn't really paid attention. But the reality is, you know, you I'm also hearing in Kyle, you're hearing in saying a lot in automotive like the time to get things in order, like things are really good right now. And so if you've been thinking about, you know, making improvements SEO seems to me like an area where you can make some measurable improvements by the end of this year, which, right might help you reduce your overall ad spend. So when the budget does get tight, right, you might have to cut back but cutting back doesn't mean like, you know, trashing your traffic.

Chad Graves  25:33

Yeah, yep. No, I think you nailed it. It's, uh, it's gonna be interesting to see. I mean, it's we've lived in a very interesting time these last couple of years. That's an understatement. Let's face it. I mean, despite I mean, I was on the very first Automotive State of the Union, where we really had no clue what was going to happen. Right. And this is like, April, May, 2020. Is that timeline was March

Paul Daly  25:55

it was right after March 2020. In around April. Yeah. And for the most part,

Chad Graves  26:02

dealerships have done pretty well since then. Right. I mean, you're gonna have your exceptions. But you look at the last year, and I know, several clients who have record years record sales, and they don't even have inventory to sell. Right. And so it's amazing. And so I think you always, it's always better to, you know, be ready for those things when you don't have to be ready today. Right? It's better to be prepared. So, you know, I think just like with anything else, if people are investing now and starting to look at those things and understand what does need to change, what does need to shift? Or what opportunities do I have? Right? I mean, there's a whole host of ways you can look for not a lot of money or no cost even to just understand, okay, this is where I see opportunity. And this is where opportunity lies. And for your point when things maybe do change economically, you know, you're not the last one to the table trying to figure it out.

Paul Daly  26:55

For real, hey, what's the best onramp for people to get ahold of you? Or kind of like, find out more about review?

Chad Graves  27:01

Sure. I mean, I'm always available. For the most part, my email is just chad@reunionmarketing.com My cell phone is 919-602-0438. Our website just as reunionmarketing.com We are easy to find. We're on LinkedIn, Dave, Dane all of us. And we love having these conversations. So you know, even if we don't, somebody doesn't want to, you know, hey, I'm not ready to pull the trigger today. But I'd like to pick your brain Cool, man, let's have that conversation, because that's where things like this and good ideas get shared. And that's really what it's all about. Right? As I know, you guys will be proponents of as well,

Kyle Mountsier  27:37

to that collaboration. Let's go.

Paul Daly  27:40

I love it. Yeah. Thanks so much for spending some time with us today. I'm looking forward to spending time with the Reunion team at the karaoke event at ASOTU CON.

Chad Graves  27:50

I love it. Thank you guys. It's a great time. Appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing you guys in Philly.

Kyle Mountsier  27:58

VDP SRP, SEO SEM. See this is like, this is like a solid rap, right? It's called it's called the I don't really know what three letter word you're talking about rap. And so I think a lot of people are very, very confused about what SEO is. And I think that, that Chad was hopefully able to assuage some of those fears, and just the approach that it takes and and the time that it takes to put in. And I think as an industry, one, we've got to do a better job at explaining all these three letter acronyms across the board. But to I think we we need to do a better job at segmenting and understanding where like marketing channels and marketing lanes and how they work together and work in and amongst each other. And so I really think that chat is, you know, chat and reunion are trying to solve that for dealers. And I appreciate that, like, for a marketing agency to say that they lead with SEO, is that that's a bold tactic for real in this time.

Michael Cirillo  28:59

Michael? Well, I was gonna say, you know, it's, it is bold, because everything we know, like we've, we're in a space where there's SEO, there's lead zombies, right like we exist in in troubling waters, Walking Dead leads zombie kind of where if it can't attribute immediately in a one to one fashion to a lead. You're really putting yourself on the chopping block quick and of course we know that SEO while worthwhile is not an overnight thing. But guys, like you know me I try and relate everything back to just regular day to day life. Track and Field track and field like SEO is like having having an acreage and never wanting to mow the lawn but then complaining that the lawn is never mowed and never cultivated. So here we have these properties that we've over the last what 25 30 years have invested a tremendous amount into, like ads to drive traffic and You know the news spots and the radio remotes and we want traffic traffic traffic, we built this property, and then we're never willing to cultivate it. We're never willing to make it a pleasing space for all of that traffic all of those people to come to. And then of course, we get mad when it doesn't one to one attribute to a lead. So I thought he did a great job at dispelling myths around that. The last thing I would add to that is it reminds me of some interviews that I've done with Rand Fishkin, who's the founder of a company called Moz. Like, world renowned SEO, like, you know, Greg Gifford goes to MozCon and speaks and does like a lot of stuff like that. And, and Rand was really expressing that, because it's not immediate, because it requires effort, but can sustain you for extended periods of time. Because it's not immediate. It's that thing that we're just, it's really hard for us to bite into. So I thought Chad did a great job at,

Paul Daly  30:56

you know, exploring, for sure. I mean, SEO in general. We live in an environment where we want everything now not just in the car business, but in everything. And, you know, look, diet pills are something but eating right and exercising what actually makes you healthy long term. So I appreciate your unique approach to this. I think that the best people to be at least beating the drum of consistency over time and why it matters. So on behalf of Michael Cirilo Kyle Mountsier, we're gonna keep laughing we'll see you next time on Auto Collabs.

31:26

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