Trump Tariff Relief?, GM Argues Driving Data is Public, Boring Online Shopping

Paul J Daly  0:00  
It is April 29 Tuesday, last day of the month tomorrow. This is the automotive State of the Union on Paul J Daly. This is Michael Cirillo Kyle's running around in a way. Mo in Arizona somewhere. Today marks two weeks until the welcome reception at ASOTU CON. Two weeks, two

Michael Cirillo  0:22  
weeks, that's crunch time.

Paul J Daly  0:24  
It is crunch time, which means you should get your tickets if you don't have them already. You should book your flights if you haven't already. You should plan that drive if you haven't already, especially if you live within like two or three hours of Hanover, Maryland, which is like the Baltimore, DC area. You should join us. I was on the call this I was on the phone this morning on my driving with Brian benstock. And let me just tell you, I don't know what that man plugs into at night to charge, but just when he wakes up, he's ready to go, he's ready to go. And the insights and the intentionality, you know, I know he's a polarizing figure, character, whatever you want to call him, but I'll tell you what that man loves this industry, and that man is making this industry amazing. Well,

Michael Cirillo  1:05  
I don't mean and he'll be at a soda con, by the way, yeah, with all of that energy, right? He's, I lost my power. He's actually powering the recharge lounge. We haven't told him. You're just gonna plug put your put your USB C under his arm. There's a bit there. There's a bit there.

Nathan Southwick  1:26  
So Michael, what are you what are you excited about here hearing at ASOTU CON this year while Paul gets his audio figured out?

Michael Cirillo  1:33  
Oh, I thought I was the one having audio issues. I mean, I think it's Paul news. It's not me for a change. Okay, so, you know, I've been vibing on this, this thought process, which is, you know, we typically get to the two weeks out, yep, uh, people start thinking, oh, man, do I have time for this? I got so many things spinning. You know, there's so many plates spinning. There's so many things happening. I mean, that sentiment I'm really vibing on right now is the exact reason why you need to be in this room, oh for sure, right? This is not a this is not a kumbaya conference. This is not your run of the mill type of deal where you you walk away with some good thoughts. This is being in the room with operators who are doing the thing and doing it well and coming up with creative solutions to push back against the things that may impose upon the business. And you know, so So not just operators, but at every level. Operators. We're talking about dealer group owners who are doing it successfully and expanding. We're talking about single point or double point, small group owners and managers. We're talking about fixed ops professionals. We're talking about sales professionals, social media professionals, people who are actually moving the needle. You know, for me, what excites me is not just being in the room. Proximity does matter, but I've been around not just this industry, but the marketing industry, for, like, I don't know, 2020,

Nathan Southwick  3:07  
plus years, you get it. You're a little older than me. It's fine. You don't have to rub it in. Yeah, get the Grays

Michael Cirillo  3:11  
going. Here's the thing, though, I have seen so many Paul's going to be so annoyed that I took this over. I've seen so many posers, dude, yeah, hey, if you just buy the thing and do the thing, and then all of a sudden you do the thing, and you'll be the thing, and then you get into it, and you spend your money, and you use a pitch and all this kind of stuff, and you do it, only to find out that it was just a lead in to buy the bigger thing. And then you do that, because you're like, oh, maybe. And then you get into that, into no this is social media professionals telling you exactly what's working on social media that help them grow with no fluff, no ulterior motive to so you coaching. This is dealership operators and owners and professionals who are telling you the exact thing they are doing right now to grow their business. And so if you're like, Man, I got so many things on the go, so do they. This is why we need to be together. If we take people who have so many things on the go and group them together with other people who have so many things on the go to move the industry forward, that's what I call your people. So that's got me excited that's coming up. I don't know if I should shout this out on the show, but do it. But I mean, I, you know, obviously, with our other show the dealer playbook, I want to be able to do something exclusive. I feel like I need to get the word out. And so what we're doing right now, it for dealers only. Obviously, would love to have more dealers in the room to spark up the conversation, but the first 10 people who go to the link that I'm going to post in the comments after we're done here. I'm going to, I'm going to give scholarships to so we're going to give away 10, the first 10 people to take advantage of that, that are dealers. We're going to, we're going to, I'm going to cover their their registration. We want to get them in the room. So if you're on the fence and you're like, Ah, I would be rush. Into that link once we post it here in the show notes, maybe Nathan, you actually can put it, put it in there. Yeah, for sure. But yeah. And, you know, I, I said the word posers. This is what's great. Put the word posers. And I'm like, if anybody's gonna catch that, I said that it's probably gonna be Brian B of the Ortega. B of the Ortega is gonna, gonna be in a pick up on that?

Nathan Southwick  5:22  
Well, I think, I think the biggest point that I that I hear, and something that we've said a lot, is that we want you there, right? Like we really, we really want you to be at ASOTU CON, if you're listening, if you're watching, and so make it

Michael Cirillo  5:38  
happen, right? I don't know about you, but I feel like we should just get into the news. I'm not

Nathan Southwick  5:42  
well. I think not great. We should, but I think, I think Paul's back. So, I mean, I could just take him, we could, we could pretend he's not here.

Michael Cirillo  5:50  
Paul's back. Yeah, Paul's back.

Paul J Daly  5:53  
Oh, I got my boy MC, I'm sorry. So I literally, while that happened, can you hear me? Yes, yeah, we're good. I don't know why my compute, my desktop went down. My whole rodecaster just stopped receiving audio. So I set up my laptop. I grabbed my mobile kit with this microphone in my in ears. So it's so funny. We do this so much mobile. I have a whole backup, whole backup.

Michael Cirillo  6:15  
I love that this stuff tends to happen when you and I co host. Why is that? Why nothing beats the last time I just got I'm Well, yesterday was the last time. But the when I was in the office, when I was at HQ, man that I'm still laughing about, that couldn't keep it together. Oh my goodness,

Paul J Daly  6:33  
no. But the tag on what you were all gonna say, where you were all were saying, innovative people gathered together, is the actual value prop. So all the people who are coming and the other people who are going to be there, something happens when people who are pursuing innovation and trying new things and figuring out the the landscape at the same time, something magic happens when, when those people converge and get together. So that's kind of why our things is Soto con is converge, innovate, disrupt, repeat, all right? I think it's time, Nathan, you're gonna have to be on the triggers for the sound thing, because my rodecaster has just decided it didn't want to come to work today. We're talking about a session. You gonna throw that session

Nathan Southwick  7:11  
up? I can sure, yeah, this one's sure. This is one of the sessions, right?

Paul J Daly  7:16  
Dealer, group, confidential, driving, efficiency, scaling, success across rooftops with Derek Hansen, Trent way, right. Dan ban banister, listen, there are a lot of people that are thinking about and facing the challenges of a growing group multiple rooftops. How do you scale technology across those how do you scale human resources and culture across multiple rooftops? Is a very serious conversation that a lot of people are dealing with, some for the first time, because they're going gone from single point to groups, but some are reaching that capacity. It used to be two or three stores in one area, and now you're in a different geography. Now you're getting to 789, 10 stores. Things start to change pretty dramatically. So come and hear about the other people who have already navigated that to help you navigate that, or know what's coming if you're planning on expanding the group. So I love that session. All right. News, time for real. For real. As he prepares to visit Michigan for the 100 day mark of his second term, President Trump is signaling potential changes that could ease auto industries tariffs. So easing the burden on the auto industry, the administration is considering adjustments to tariffs on imported auto parts, and may even exempt auto makers from certain steel and aluminum duties. The policy shift, first reported by The Wall Street Journal, appears aimed at supporting domestic manufacturers and suppliers who need these supplies. They need the parts to build the cars, they need the raw materials to build the parts. Proposed changes would address the stacking of tariffs where multiple levies apply to the same imported vehicle, by potentially eliminating any overlapping duties. The potential relief follows a joint letter from major automakers, including GM and Toyota, urging the administration to reconsider. Here's a quote from Commerce Secretary, Howard lutnic, quote, this deal is a major victory for the President's trade policy by rewarding companies who manufacture domestically. So kind of hold it, hold them, holding to the guns, but also kind of acknowledging and trying to, you know, trying to ease some of the the real burdens that are happening across the industry.

Michael Cirillo  9:15  
Look, I mean, here we go,

Paul J Daly  9:22  
grandfathers. Cirillo is coming out. Here we go. You want

Michael Cirillo  9:24  
to know where Grange McGeorge? The thing of it is, there's a strategy. And we know there's a strategy playing out. And I think some of us are starting to put bits and bobs of the strategy together to understand what the whole purpose of all of this is. You know, it'd be really cool if we all Stop panicking right away. Well, I'm allowed one controversial opinion of the day, and I tend to burn them in the morning show

Paul J Daly  9:58  
I was talking to. Friend of mine who's very close with the metals industry. And you know, some of these tariffs their their business, and it's a, it's a big business, but it's not, I think it's a billion, billion dollar business, but the tariffs, all of a sudden increased their expenses by $70 million because the machinery they make to process recycled materials, you know, comes from partnerships with European countries. Actually, it's not China, it's, it's like European countries, European Union, etc. So the panic not helpful. Hopefully, this is good news for the industry. You know, just an announcement right now. We'll see what actually happens, what comes of it. But, you know, this is just, I think, another, another, another wave in the in the choppy waters we're going through. And like you said, you know, not panicking, controlling what you can't control, especially on the dealership level. Our friend David Long always says, you make your own economy. And I have a number of other dealership friends. My friend Greg CEO senior used to say things about like, when people are talking about recession, and he would say, you know, if you talk about recession long enough, you're gonna find yourself in the middle of one. And

Michael Cirillo  11:06  
so I mean, like we gotta, you know, and I feel like we need to stop acting like we are the first people to exist on this planet, and that this is the first time that tariffs have happened, or president with an agenda, or, or, or whatever, whatever, whatever. I mean going

Paul J Daly  11:24  
for the knees this morning. But I mean, it's like, you

Michael Cirillo  11:28  
remember 100 years ago the world was at war, like, however many years ago it was 80 some on your it's like, you know, like,

Paul J Daly  11:36  
sure, and then we were like, Hey, we can't make as many cars. Why? Because we switched to making tanks. Right? Remember that factory that used to make refrigerators? Well, now it's making mortar shells and artillery

Michael Cirillo  11:51  
and and it's a good perspective, though. Well, look, Paul, the reality of it is too nothing ever has ended up the way we thought it would worst case. That's That's very true. So like, we upfront, we're all like, oh, and I know human nature, but like you said, controlled and objective, and I like David Long sentiments about it, I tend to resonate with that line of thinking. So it's like, we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens.

Paul J Daly  12:19  
All right, speaking of seeing what happens segway, good job, Nathan. Time that's that's impressive when Nathan's on the trigger that tight, because usually I trigger it over here myself, so I know what I'm going to say and what I'm going to say. Well done. Well done. General Motors is facing a wave of lawsuits accusing the automaker of secretly collecting and selling drivers behavioral data claims now GM are trying to dismiss with a bold new legal argument. The lawsuits began in March of 2024, alleging GM OnStar and data firms like LexisNexis shared driver behavior data without proper consent. GM discontinued its smart driver program in April, so the month after they were accused of it and ended partnerships with LexisNexis and ver risk, after the public backlash. Now, GM argues the data collection didn't violate privacy because driving behavior on public roads isn't protected under Privacy laws. GM said in a dismissal filing quote driving data includes vehicle location routines, braking events and speed all occurring on public thoroughfares. They also stated roadways are public and these behaviors are observed by all and saying it doesn't carry what, what it's they're basically saying it's the same reason Google was able to post a picture of everybody, how everybody's house online, saying there's no reasonable expectation of privacy, so it's available anyway. I think the real problem, and I think the the probably counter argument, it isn't from a consumer protection consumer protection standpoint. It's saying, but did they tie me to that driving behavior? Because, yes, you're on a public road. Yes, everyone can see the car. Know how fast it's driving, what it's doing. However, no one knows actually, that I'm driving the car. And so if they're tying those two things together, selling that behavioral data to other companies, insurance companies, etc, etc. I think that's why they're in hot water. We'll see.

Michael Cirillo  14:09  
Yeah. So this is, I mean, we drove a Sierra and truck, yeah, the three liter diesel. Great engine, great truck power engine. Is this the thing that would tell me when my like wife breaked too aggressively?

Paul J Daly  14:27  
Oh, why did you get notifications like

Michael Cirillo  14:29  
that? Notifications like acceleration to accept like it would track certain things,

Paul J Daly  14:34  
right? Yeah, yes. I mean, it would be that, and it would be driving behavior, and

Michael Cirillo  14:39  
it was tied to her profile, so it knew if she was driving versus I was driving based on who unlocked the vehicle.

Paul J Daly  14:45  
Yeah, no. I mean, they, I have heard it said that the most kind of invasive apps on your phone are the ones that are tied to your vehicle.

Michael Cirillo  14:56  
Yeah. Oh, I because, look, I maintain and nobody. Really fully come out with this this, but I fully maintain that when Steve Jobs introduced the first iPhone, we were all like, Oh my goodness. 4500 songs in my pocket. Steve Jobs was really saying, I shall put a data collection device in everyone's pocket, and then let's make it interface with a vehicle. It's like, dude,

Paul J Daly  15:21  
perfect songs. I remember, I remember covering the story when it when it came out. Honestly, I don't think it'll have any effect on dealers and what they're doing on the front lines, but I do think it matters a lot to public perception, whether or not they see auto manufacturers as trustworthy companies. And so I think from a brand play. We want people to trust the auto industry as one that is for your benefit, is transparent, is open handed. And do get a lot of pressure from OEMs to, you know, promote dealers, to be transparent in their pricing, and they're up so, like, I think the OEM is in GM specifically in this point has a little bit of a PR kind of conundrum in the fact that they're trying to con tell dealers they need to be this way, and then, you know, now they have to walk a mile in those shoes, or drive a mile in those shoes, or drive a mile while you're being tracked.

Michael Cirillo  16:10  
But Hey, speaking of customer perception

Paul J Daly  16:17  
on points, yeah, that word a new

Michael Cirillo  16:19  
a new study from Criteo reveals that the digital checkout rush might be fading, with consumers craving the discovery and delight of in store shopping. Oh, okay, more than 75% of consumers say e commerce is functional, but not fun, with 29% calling it a chore, shoppers missed the thrill of the unexpected, the unexpected. 36% long, ooh, an interesting word. They long for the surprise fines that offer in store. Interesting. A majority find online shopping overwhelming. 78% and lonely. 79% say that lonely interesting. We've been talking a lot about lonely this past week, with only half describing it as enjoyable. So while data privacy remains a concern, 43% of consumers are open to sharing data for a more tailored experience. Pretty O's Sherry Smith says personalization is the key to winning shoppers back. Quote, retailers need to blend efficiency with emotional engagement. Close. Quote, I don't know what is your Amazon bill say, Paul, do you? Do you guys like shopping online?

Paul J Daly  17:31  
I don't know if that says I enjoy it, you know, like, I think, you know, I think the things that I mostly buy on Amazon are either, typically, from stocking standpoint, out of reach locally, right? I want a specific one, or it is something that I would not enjoy for shopping for anyway. You know, interest, personal items, beard, bomb, right? All these things that are routine purchases, it really does depend. I think the fact that people are looking for the treasure hunting, right? That's why stores like Marshall's came to such success. Is because when you go look and find anything that you weren't looking for those incidental fines or the sale items, I think Costco has done a good job at leveraging that and the way they changed their stock and their inventory so much there's when you walk in that store, you know, the first aisle of things that you're going to see are going to be interesting, right? They're just part of the like, it's actually almost, I wonder if it's like a little dopamine hit when you walk in, like, what's new, what's new, what's new. Then you find something you actually like, or is on sale, and you buy it now, um, the lonely, overwhelming and lonely. I think you can look at the car shopping, the current car shopping status, and say, Is it overwhelming? Yes, people are overwhelmed when they start the process. So much selection, massive purchase, financing questions. So I would say car buying people are absolutely, from a retail standpoint, starting it overwhelmed, lonely. Lonely is an interesting one. I think that says a little bit more about our culture. More about our culture than about any specific retail experience. However, I think that auto has a very unique opportunity to put people at ease and give them some surprise and delight when they start the online shopping journey and continue that when they come in store, because we know that most people want to do both. They want to shop and research and get data and maybe find a vehicle online, then they want to come into the store and finish the transaction. So I think there are two very unique opportunities. Number one, how do you actually put a little more personality and interaction in the shopping process? Sometimes, I think that could be as as minimal as a line of text that is encouraging, like, congratulations, you found an amazing car, right, right? That kind of brightens it up. And when they come in the store, understand that people are looking for a little bit of positive, unexpected. And when they're coming in with already, we know they walk in the store with a. Negative connotation and anxiety, anything you can do to erase that or alleviate that. And that could be a certain greeting, it could be a drink. It could be, you know, it could be balloons over, I don't know, right, but surprising delight. So I think we have an opportunity in auto to address all the things that this survey is highlighting about consumer sentiment in online shopping.

Michael Cirillo  20:20  
Yeah, oh, well, look, I mean it. What I'm picking up on is anything that kind of requires fit and feel like I don't need fit and feel for Q tips, right? No, but, but a vehicle I do I need to. Is it comfortable? Uh, clothing, right? When you are, when you are shaped like an aging pair. Like me, I need to go into the store and put the shirt on, you know what I'm saying? Like, I need to make sure the buttons don't close separate over the belly. You know, convertible, right? I mean, there are people that buy, I would be interested, actually, to see the statistics on fit and fill purchases online and how what the returns look like. But I mean, I would imagine there is something there's a dopamine hit, a serotonin level increase when you're in a store and you're like, Oh, that's cool. And I would also say this, I think there's a connection between mindless online shopping and its impact on like the psychological impact of using a credit card and how easy it is and separating the the transaction versus being in store where you you did find the thing, but now you have to use your human resources and deliberate whether or not you can actually afford the right

Paul J Daly  21:39  
look, look at The thing, and pull the credit card out or tap the phone. Hey, look, without a doubt, I think it spells this study, spells opportunity for the people and the merchandisers and the marketers and the customer experience people inside our dealerships who want to make sure that we are a great retail experience. And I think automotive has has an opportunity to lead the way. One last comment here from Brian Ortega, who's been hanging on with us this episode. He said he found some cross color overalls at Ross score. First of all, I know we were born in the same era, because I know what cross color overalls look like. I may or may not have had a pair. Everyone else thinks it's some kind of like Christian rock band cross. You

Michael Cirillo  22:20  
know, Ortega's got the Ralph Macchio, Ralph macchiatis, where, when he was 15, he looked like he was seven. When he was 30, he looked like he was 20, when he was 40. Did you

Paul J Daly  22:36  
know he is actually 63 and that woman in all his photos actually isn't his wife, it's his daughter.

Michael Cirillo  22:46  
It's his granddaughter.

Paul J Daly  22:49  
All right, roll the outro music. I think we've done enough damage between technical difficulties and going through the whole battery of things. Here's the bottom line, you have a lot of control over what happens in your store and in your vicinity today, go take care of some people and everything else will be fine.

Unknown Speaker  23:05  
You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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